Corona

[OrgasmAlley]

6,435,453 Confirmed Cases 382,093 Global Deaths
What will happen to these numbers with "summer" coming? People are bored, frustrated, and losing faith that safe measures are the right course of action. The weather is probably going to be the biggest factor, in that, people don't want to be indoors when it's hot, plus it makes wearing a mask harder.

My guess is nothing, since that's what has happened in the 21 states that have been opening up. But if the rioting cools off, the media will probably start in on the COVID fear drum some more. "Safe measures" pretty clearly weren't the right course of action, certainly a couple weeks into them when we know a bit more than the original bogus claims that drove those actions.

[Shannon SteelSlave]

I have my own opinions of what is going on, but prefer not to speak them at this time. I am not trying to take the focus away from this important development, nor do I wish to censor it.
The government is still trying to tell protesters to practice virus safety measures, not sure of their motive.
What I do know is that I would like this thread to remain about this pandemic, to help keep us informed and cognizant of what is going on.
Thank you all for your bravery and contribution. Shannon salutes you.

[TNTBound]

just found this.

Autopsies Prove that COVID-19 is a Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation (Pulmonary Thrombosis)
It is now clear that the whole world has been attacking the so-called Coronavirus Pandemic wrongly due to a serious pathophysiological diagnosis error.

According to valuable information from Italian pathologists, ventilators and intensive care units were never needed.

Autopsies performed by the Italian pathologists have shown that it is not pneumonia but it is Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation (Thrombosis) which ought to be fought with antibiotics, antivirals, anti-inflammatories and anticoagulants.

If this is true for all cases, that means the whole world is about to resolve this novel pandemic earlier than expected.

However, protocols are currently being changed in Italy who have been adversely affected by this pandemic.

The impressive case of a Mexican family in the United States who claimed they were cured with a home remedy was documented: three 500 mg aspirins dissolved in lemon juice boiled with honey, taken hot. The next day they woke up as if nothing had happened to them! Well, the scientific information that follows proves they are right!

This information was released by a medical researcher from Italy:
“Thanks to 50 autopsies performed on patients who died of COVID-19, Italian pathologists have discovered that IT IS NOT PNEUMONIA, strictly speaking because the virus does not only kill pneumocytes of this type but uses an inflammatory storm to create an endothelial vascular thrombosis.”

In disseminated intravascular coagulation, the lung is the most affected because it is the most inflamed, but there is also a heart attack, stroke and many other thromboembolic diseases.

In fact, the protocols left antiviral therapies useless and focused on anti-inflammatory and anti-clotting therapies. These therapies should be done immediately, even at home, in which the treatment of patients responds very well.

If the Chinese had denounced it, they would have invested in-home therapy, not intensive care! So, the way to fight it is with antibiotics, anti-inflammatories and anticoagulants.

An Italian pathologist reports that the hospital in Bergamo did a total of 50 autopsies and one in Milan, 20, that is, the Italian series is the highest in the world, the Chinese did only 3, which seems to fully confirm the information.

In a nutshell, the disease is determined by disseminated intravascular coagulation triggered by the virus; therefore, it is not pneumonia but pulmonary thrombosis, a major diagnostic error.
Some world leaders doubled the number of resuscitation places in the ICU, with unnecessary exorbitant costs.

According to the Italian pathologist, treatment in ICUs is useless if thromboembolism is not resolved first. “If we ventilate a lung where blood does not circulate, it is useless, in fact, nine (9) patients out of ten (10) will die because the problem is cardiovascular, not respiratory.”

“It is venous micro thrombosis, not pneumonia, that determines mortality.”

According to the literature, inflammation induces thrombosis through a complex but well-known pathophysiological mechanism.
Unfortunately, what the scientific literature said, especially Chinese until mid-March was that anti-inflammatory drugs should not be used.

Now, the therapy being used in Italy is with anti-inflammatories and antibiotics, as in influenza, and the number of hospitalized patients has been reduced.

He also discovered that many deaths, even in their 40’s, had a history of fever for 10 to 15 days, which were not treated properly.

The inflammation does a great deal of tissue damage and creates ground for thrombus formation. However, the main problem is not the virus, but the immune hyper reaction that destroys the cell where the virus is installed.

In fact, patients with rheumatoid arthritis have never needed to be admitted to the ICU because they are on corticosteroid therapy, which is a great anti-inflammatory.

With this important discovery, it is possible to return to normal life and open closed deals due to the quarantine, though not immediately, but with time.

Kindly share so that the health authorities of each country can make their respective analysis of this information, prevent further deaths and redirect investments appropriately; the vaccine may come later.

[sweh]

6,435,453 Confirmed Cases 382,093 Global Deaths
What will happen to these numbers with "summer" coming? People are bored, frustrated, and losing faith that safe measures are the right course of action. The weather is probably going to be the biggest factor, in that, people don't want to be indoors when it's hot, plus it makes wearing a mask harder.

I'm sure the UK, under Bloody Stupid Johnson, will double those numbers all alone.

[ruru67]

Kindly share so that the health authorities of each country can make their respective analysis of this information, prevent further deaths and redirect investments appropriately; the vaccine may come later.

Please don't. Your medical authorities do in fact talk to each other, and are far better served if that information travels directly, and not via the deranged minds of randoms on the Internet.

[BoundInKasugai]

Interesting piece of information TNT. It ties into another bit of information that I read: that people on immunosuppressants for prior conditions actually have a better chance. If this pans out to be the case (for a large enough number of patients) then that is good news.

A few remarks, from what I understand, antibiotics do more harm than good in viral infections. And I second what Ruru said.

[Gregovic]

just found this.

Autopsies Prove that COVID-19 is a Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation (Pulmonary Thrombosis)
It is now clear that the whole world has been attacking the so-called Coronavirus Pandemic wrongly due to a serious pathophysiological diagnosis error.

According to valuable information from Italian pathologists, ventilators and intensive care units were never needed.

Autopsies performed by the Italian pathologists have shown that it is not pneumonia but it is Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation (Thrombosis) which ought to be fought with antibiotics, antivirals, anti-inflammatories and anticoagulants.

If this is true for all cases, that means the whole world is about to resolve this novel pandemic earlier than expected.

However, protocols are currently being changed in Italy who have been adversely affected by this pandemic.

The impressive case of a Mexican family in the United States who claimed they were cured with a home remedy was documented: three 500 mg aspirins dissolved in lemon juice boiled with honey, taken hot. The next day they woke up as if nothing had happened to them! Well, the scientific information that follows proves they are right!

This information was released by a medical researcher from Italy:
“Thanks to 50 autopsies performed on patients who died of COVID-19, Italian pathologists have discovered that IT IS NOT PNEUMONIA, strictly speaking because the virus does not only kill pneumocytes of this type but uses an inflammatory storm to create an endothelial vascular thrombosis.”

In disseminated intravascular coagulation, the lung is the most affected because it is the most inflamed, but there is also a heart attack, stroke and many other thromboembolic diseases.

In fact, the protocols left antiviral therapies useless and focused on anti-inflammatory and anti-clotting therapies. These therapies should be done immediately, even at home, in which the treatment of patients responds very well.

If the Chinese had denounced it, they would have invested in-home therapy, not intensive care! So, the way to fight it is with antibiotics, anti-inflammatories and anticoagulants.

An Italian pathologist reports that the hospital in Bergamo did a total of 50 autopsies and one in Milan, 20, that is, the Italian series is the highest in the world, the Chinese did only 3, which seems to fully confirm the information.

In a nutshell, the disease is determined by disseminated intravascular coagulation triggered by the virus; therefore, it is not pneumonia but pulmonary thrombosis, a major diagnostic error.
Some world leaders doubled the number of resuscitation places in the ICU, with unnecessary exorbitant costs.

According to the Italian pathologist, treatment in ICUs is useless if thromboembolism is not resolved first. “If we ventilate a lung where blood does not circulate, it is useless, in fact, nine (9) patients out of ten (10) will die because the problem is cardiovascular, not respiratory.”

“It is venous micro thrombosis, not pneumonia, that determines mortality.”

According to the literature, inflammation induces thrombosis through a complex but well-known pathophysiological mechanism.
Unfortunately, what the scientific literature said, especially Chinese until mid-March was that anti-inflammatory drugs should not be used.

Now, the therapy being used in Italy is with anti-inflammatories and antibiotics, as in influenza, and the number of hospitalized patients has been reduced.

He also discovered that many deaths, even in their 40’s, had a history of fever for 10 to 15 days, which were not treated properly.

The inflammation does a great deal of tissue damage and creates ground for thrombus formation. However, the main problem is not the virus, but the immune hyper reaction that destroys the cell where the virus is installed.

In fact, patients with rheumatoid arthritis have never needed to be admitted to the ICU because they are on corticosteroid therapy, which is a great anti-inflammatory.

With this important discovery, it is possible to return to normal life and open closed deals due to the quarantine, though not immediately, but with time.

Kindly share so that the health authorities of each country can make their respective analysis of this information, prevent further deaths and redirect investments appropriately; the vaccine may come later.

Source? Because as far as I know thrombosis can be a complication linked to cytokine storm, which is a complication resulting from*drumroll* Pneumonia. As it is even pneumonia doesn't usually kill you, it's the complications from pneumonia that kill you. This is like saying someone didn't die in a car crash because it was in fact their lungs filling with blood that caused them to die, not the impact of the car hitting them. You can't have one without the other.
Please take all these miracle cure articles with a few pounds of salt, they're usually bullshit. Like "The inflammation does a great deal of tissue damage and creates ground for thrombus formation. However, the main problem is not the virus, but the immune hyper reaction that destroys the cell where the virus is installed." Yeah, that's called a Cytokine storm and has been a known complication from day one. It results from the immune system overreacting on the viral infection in the lung tissue. Pneumonia is a very broad term and basically just means inflammation of the lung tissue do to viral or bacterial infection. Which the Wuhan-corona virus does cause. The usual treatment for that is putting people on a ventilator and medicate as needed with anti-virals and immunosuppressants. As they've been doing. I'm not saying that there may not be better treatment methods, and we are discovering those all the time, but that is not immediate grounds to return life to normal and stop any and all distancing and quarantining measures.

[OrgasmAlley]

Bad science means poor decisions, again.

Having caused most of the studies of effectiveness to be stopped in their tracks, the Lancet pre-peer review study claiming hydroxychloroquine is both ineffective against the 'rona and dangerous in that use has been withdrawn in response to a host of issues with its data.

The retraction: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... ium=social

A summary of the flaws in the data:

"The publication of the study had major consequences. Trials testing the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine stopped within days, including a study by the World Health Organization (WHO), Science Magazine reported.

Recently, concerns emerged when the company that supplied the hospital records for the study, Surgisphere, came under scrutiny for supplying questionable data. According to the Science Magazine report, researchers pointed out parts of the dataset that seemed impossible, like the number of patients used for the study, demographics of the patients, and doses of the drug the patients were allegedly given.

Nicholas White, a malaria researcher at Mahidol University in Bangkok, pointed out discrepancies in the data, like the fact that the doses of the drug given to patients were typically higher than the dose recommended by the FDA despite the majority of people in the study being treated in the United States. White also noted that the amount of data coming from Africa was higher than the amount of data the continent was expected to have in a computer system.

Red flags were also raised about the methods used by the researchers, according to the report. Matthew Semler, a critical care physician at Vanderbilt University, said that the study didn’t provide critical details, like whether or not the patients given hydroxychloroquine were already sicker than the patients who were not given the drug."

[ruru67]

Bad science means poor decisions, again. (hydroxychloroquine)

Bit of an own goal there, and the three authors who didn't supply the crappy data or refuse to subject it to further scrutiny retracted it in pretty good time. The paper was published on 24 May, and was pulled on 4 June.

That's astonishing response in the scientific community. It's science working its checks and balances extremely well. Don't forget that while there may have been a bit of overreaction from this one paper (because everyone is working on heavily compressed timescales), it doesn't alter the fact that there is still no real evidence that hydroxychloroquine is useful, and while several studies stopped after the 24 May paper, several didn't, and those that continued still aren't supporting its use.

That hydroxychloroquine was first promoted (11 March) by a tech startup guy (because we know those guys know everything) tells you all you really need to know.

After that, a French doctor ran with it with 24 patients in a highly dubious (non-blind, non-randomised) study, announced his "preliminary results" by Internet video (17 March), leading to the Italian authorities saying they'd try it - because Italy was early in its crisis, facing an exponential rise in both cases and deaths, and was prepared to try basically anything. That's not science, it's grasping at straws.

Again, demanding that health authorities do stuff on a national or global scale based on something someone said on the Internet is Not Helping.

[OrgasmAlley]

I can't say I agree with the pass for the authors (there were blatant issues with the data that they chose to ignore) or the claim that "there is still no real evidence that hydroxychloroquine is useful" (I've posted references and links to some of those earlier... if you claim only controlled study data is real evidence and anecdotal evidence is not, then sure... we haven't seen broad based controlled studies completed; but anecdotal evidence is still evidence). The only thing I'll repeat is that A) in a large survey of doctors 65% would give it to a family member and 67% would take it themselves and B) review The Resort in Texas City, TX.

[tiemeupalso]

chocklet cures corona.

[Shannon SteelSlave]

chocklet cures corona.

Better find those golden tickets then.

Willy_Wonka.jpeg (15.18 KiB) Viewed 1388 times

[ruru67]

... only controlled study data is real evidence and anecdotal evidence is not ...

Anecdotal evidence is just opinion, affected by the holder of that opinion and based on minimal data. That's why controlled studies are done, to filter out those biases.

You're talking about diverting massive resources to these untested treatments, resources that are needed elsewhere. You don't do that in a crisis unless you're sure it's going to help. You said, "bad science means poor decisions", and yet you're advocating bad science, for exactly the biases good science tries to remove.

And you seem to be using the fact one study was flawed as evidence in favour of using hydroxychloroqine. It's not. By retracting the study, all that's being said is, "this paper is useless, move along."

[Shannon SteelSlave]

Doctors who would prescribe Hydroxychloroquine for themselves or a family member. It is strange what people who are staring at illness and death will suddenly believe in. But would they prescribe it to a patient and risk malpractice? Does anyone have that answer?
I still think of Hydroxychloroquine as too risky with too little guarantee of treatment or benefit, provided any such exists, and that recovery is not somehow coincidental to the virus just running its course. Like a sort of vitamin, maybe.
The vaccine will take anywhere from 6-18 months. Then we'll deal with testing, distribution.
With summer coming, the focus is off the virus, unfortunately, but at least we seem to have the hospital beds available if there is a surge in cases and admissions.
I feel that our half measures only hurt the economy, and praying that doesn't turn into the double whammy of heavy cases load, and a bruised economy, with frustration to boot.

[OrgasmAlley]

Anecdotal evidence is just opinion, affected by the holder of that opinion and based on minimal data. That's why controlled studies are done, to filter out those biases.

If I think that hydroxychloroqine is effective, that is opinion. Only experience creates an anecdote here. A body of anecdotal evidence could be minimal, or it could be huge. There are vast arrays of expansive observational studies of various things collecting massive volumes of anecdotal evidence. The reason it's "anecdotal" evidence is because it's comprised of anecdotes... the evidence consists of informally collected data in the form of experiential results without the controls found in a controlled study. Anecdotal evidence is routinely used as the foundation of experimental and off-label uses for drugs prior to the completion of controlled studies.

Doctors who would prescribe Hydroxychloroquine for themselves or a family member. It is strange what people who are staring at illness and death will suddenly believe in. But would they prescribe it to a patient and risk malpractice? Does anyone have that answer?[/qoute]

As far as I know, none of the doctors surveyed were staring at any actual illness when they answered. Many doctors around the globe have prescribed hydroxychloroqine to patients, in some cases a whole lot of them.

As I noted weeks ago, we're talking about a moderate dose over a very short period... roughly 400mg daily for 5-7 days seems to be the favorite. Contrast that with lupus (200-400mg daily forever) or rheumatoid arthritis (200-600mg daily forever). Between the two, millions in the US are on these regimens, enough that it's around 130th in the most prescribed drugs in this country. Hundreds of millions of people have taken it as a malaria prophylaxes (400mg weekly for duration of exposure plus 6 weeks) and malaria treatment (2000mg over 2 days). If we're into evidence, where is the evidence of significant side effects from the treatment used for the COVID?