Timer padlocks again (new model)

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andresd
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Re: Timer padlocks again (new model)

Post by andresd »

ruru67 wrote: The motor only needs to run when opening the lock, which would happen when the middle button is pressed (with no time set) or when the timer runs out.
So, this means that if (for any reason) electronics is dead while the padlock is locked, it will stay locked. And there will be no way to unlock it without harm, right?
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ruru67
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Re: Timer padlocks again (new model)

Post by ruru67 »

andresd wrote:
ruru67 wrote:The motor only needs to run when opening the lock, which would happen when the middle button is pressed (with no time set) or when the timer runs out.
So, this means that if (for any reason) electronics is dead while the padlock is locked, it will stay locked. And there will be no way to unlock it without harm, right
Yep. That's true of the old style locks too. The difference is that with the old style, the motor and electronics need to operate to engage the lock, whereas with the new style, you can close it with an inoperable motor or electronics, and you won't be able to open it again without tools (or at least giving it power if the failure is caused by a flat battery).

I'd recommend keeping them locked with the timer zeroed when not in use, only unlocking with the middle button immediately prior to use; that way you know the thing has a charge and the unlock mechanism is working. And as with the old style, if one is showing signs of low charge (any of dim or slow-responding display, flashing, going blank or dim when the motor or buzzer operate, or sluggish sounding motor), don't use it.

This is really no different to keeping your keyed or combination padlocks locked when not in use so you know the keys/combo are present and work before you lock them.
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Hawkward
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Re: Timer padlocks again (new model)

Post by Hawkward »

Sorry I couldn't help but come out of hibernation to share this. The lockpicking lawyer on YouTube decided to take a crack at the lock shared in this thread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtNkUjQAHqY

So I guess a Pocket EMP Generator might be good as your backup release? :rofl:
(but in all seriousness, don't mess with electricity!)
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Kinbaku
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Re: Timer padlocks again (new model)

Post by Kinbaku »

Hawkward wrote:Sorry I couldn't help but come out of hibernation to share this. The lockpicking lawyer on YouTube decided to take a crack at the lock shared in this thread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtNkUjQAHqY

So I guess a Pocket EMP Generator might be good as your backup release? :rofl:
(but in all seriousness, don't mess with electricity!)
And keep in mind that some circuits will break. Everything depends on the components used for the electric lock. But it can at least be a possible solution instead of having to break open the entire lock and break it anyway. Thank you Hawkward for coming back out your hibernation and showing us this solution. :hi:
Sergio
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Re: Timer padlocks again (new model)

Post by Sergio »

Mine arrived at the weekend and while it's clearly not going to be possible to break it open as easily as the earlier cable types, the hasp has a tinny rattle to it while open and I'm pretty sure a large screwdriver will break it open in no time if it came to it. Definitely lots of SB fun potential to be had though.
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Shannon SteelSlave
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Re: Timer padlocks again (new model)

Post by Shannon SteelSlave »

Hawkward wrote:Sorry I couldn't help but come out of hibernation to share this.
On the one hand, I would be curious to know why you have retired. :?: On the other hand, I am glad to see that we are still producing a forum to tempt everyone. :twisted:
Bondage is like a foreign film without subtitles. Only through sharing and practice can we hope to understand.
A Jedi uses bondage for knowledge and defense, never for attack.
I am so smart! I am so smart! S-M-R-T!....I, I mean S-M-A-R-T!
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Hawkward
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Re: Timer padlocks again (new model)

Post by Hawkward »

Shannon SteelSlave wrote:
Hawkward wrote:Sorry I couldn't help but come out of hibernation to share this.
On the one hand, I would be curious to know why you have retired. :?: On the other hand, I am glad to see that we are still producing a forum to tempt everyone. :twisted:
I'm a full-time parent for my 3y/o daughter, so kink has been a bit less of a focus. I used to have a lot of thoughts towards chastity, bondage and crossdressing, but the wife and I have our hands full, so we've toned down the bondage side of things. As such, this forum, my go-to haven for inspiration has been less of a thing I can think of for now :roll:

I've not retired, in fact the flame is very much still there and we've been thinking more about things now that our daughter is nearly old enough to go to school, it might open some more avenues! But until then, I'm mostly praying boundanna stays alive and that I can pop in now and again :D
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Shannon SteelSlave
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Re: Timer padlocks again (new model)

Post by Shannon SteelSlave »

Shannon SteelSlave wrote:retired
That's my bad. I meant to ask, in this round about way, is why you had stopped posting.
I don't have much time to play these days. It's ok to participate and offer your experience. But if it is too much distraction or temptation from your vanilla duties, then please disregard.
Either way, don't be a stranger. No one is stranger than me.
Bondage is like a foreign film without subtitles. Only through sharing and practice can we hope to understand.
A Jedi uses bondage for knowledge and defense, never for attack.
I am so smart! I am so smart! S-M-R-T!....I, I mean S-M-A-R-T!
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Kinbaku
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Re: Timer padlocks again (new model)

Post by Kinbaku »

Hawkward wrote:I've not retired, in fact the flame is very much still there and we've been thinking more about things now that our daughter is nearly old enough to go to school, it might open some more avenues! But until then, I'm mostly praying boundanna stays alive and that I can pop in now and again :D
We certainly try to keep BoundAnna alive. In fact, when I was not registered I had deliberately built in a rest period where I would not look at any site and sometimes there are other activities that are more important in your life. A small child is certainly that, it gets older every day and a day that you are not there will never come back.
It's nice to hear that the flame is still there and we hope to see you again several times. :hi:
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ruru67
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Re: Timer padlocks again (new model)

Post by ruru67 »

Well, they finally turned up. I won't open one up, since redsonic already did, and covered that off pretty well.

So first, actual measurements:
  • Body size: width: 46.2mm; height: 43.3mm; thickness: 18.4mm; height including (locked) shackle: 78.5mm
  • Shackle thickness: 5mm
  • Shackle internal dimensions: width: 30mm; height (locked): 30mm
That's slightly taller - 6.1mm - than the old style locks, but the width and depth are pretty close. The new lock is considerably heavier than the old style - 110g vs 30g for the old. The lock body surface is metal (looks like aluminium) but may be just a layer on the outside. (That's not clear on redsonic's pics - the internal pics show a black body, while his external pic shows a silver body, so I'm not sure if if that's two different locks, or if something else is going on.)

The thicker 5mm shackle will restrict what you can use it for - a lot of the locking buckles I have around here are too small (and some of those have already been drilled out to accommodate the 4mm shackle of the older style lock).

Specifications regarding strength are the same as for the old style lock, although the new one certainly looks stronger.

The power input is a micro-USB. The "reset hole" shown on the images in the AliExpress link I originally quoted is, as I suspected, not there - the USB hole is in about that location. It doesn't come with a power supply, but does come with a 50cm USB charging cable.

Controls: the "user interface" is practically identical to the old style lock: three buttons, marked "H" and "M" (for hours and minutes) either side of a central "lock" button. The H & M buttons set the timer, adding one hour or minute per press, wrapping to zero after 99 hours or 59 minutes respectively, and do basically nothing once the timer is started (apart from lighting the display backlight, which goes off again after 5 seconds). Once set, you can start the timer with the central "Lock" button; the thing will beep once a second for five seconds, then the display "lock" icon will show as locked, and the display shows the remaining time.

Unlike the old style, there's just a long beep (if the buzzer hasn't been turned off) when the lock is "locked" (i.e. the timer is engaged and the countdown reaches zero) - there's no mechanical sound. The mechanism only unlocks; this happens automatically when the timer runs down, but if there's any reason to unlock it at a different time, e.g. if you've closed the shackle without the timer running, or if it was jammed when it previously attempted to unlock, you can trigger an unlock by pressing the middle "lock" button (several times, see below). If you operate the mechanism with the shackle open, you can see the catch retract and return, accompanied by the sound of the motor.

As expected, the lock icon shows locked when the timer is running, regardless of the physical position of the shackle, and unlocked if the timer is not running (and the unlock can be triggered by pressing the "lock" button). You can close the shackle after the timer has started, and it will lock and stay locked until the timer completes, or you can close it before starting the timer. The lock doesn't "know" if it's latched or not.

You can start the timers on several locks so they will all unlock at about the same time, then take your time in applying them ... and you don't have to fiddle with the buttons to do so (potentially adding an hour if you accidentally press the wrong button - I did that once with one of the old ones).

Note that for the lock button to unlock it, the timer must be zeroed. If you press it with anything other than 00:00 showing on the timer display, the 5 second countdown will start, and you will need to press the lock button again to reset it (which will zero the timer). An additional press will then trigger the unlock. If the lock has gone to sleep with a timer still set (and that includes remembering it from last time), you'll need to press the "lock" button several times to unlock it: the first press will wake it up, the second will re-display the previous time, the third will start the countdown, the fourth (assuming you get it in before the countdown finishes!) will reset the timer, and only the fifth will actually unlock it. So if you find yourself needing to unlock it when it's latched (but with no timer running), just press the "lock" button repeatedly at around one second intervals until you get the desired result.

I'd suggest resetting them after use by pressing the "lock" button as many times as needed to zero the timer, and closing the shackle after use. That way you need to unlock it before the next use, and should have an idea whether the battery is OK and the lock is operable.

Holding the middle button down for three seconds toggles the sound on or off (again like the old style). I note that the beeper is a lot more polite than the old style locks, which was irritatingly loud.

There is an "emergency reset" feature. When locked, if you hold the H and M buttons down together for ten seconds, the lock will unlock and reset. You can do this three times, after which the "feature" becomes unavailable. I suspect most folk will want to disable this - do that by setting a short time, locking it, then holding the H & M buttons down for ten seconds, until it resets, repeating that procedure three times.

I'm not sure if "hard resetting" it (by shorting the reset pad, or if the battery goes flat) turns this "feature" back on.

The lock seems to unlock even if the shackle is under some strain. but it's not hard to put enough force on it (pulling the shackle outward from the lock body) that the latch jams and doesn't release. If that happens, you can use the middle button to release it once you've got the strain off it.

It's pretty easy to shim the thing open - I used a piece of plastic cut from the packing it came in (stiff, but thin), but you could use plastic from a drink bottle or cut a piece out of an aluminium soda can. You just wrap the cut piece around the outside of the shackle, slide it into the lock as far as it'll go, then rotate it around to the inside of the shackle, pushing the latch out of the way as it goes. It's easy enough to do that I'd be doing that before peeling the display cover off and dismantling the lock, which was the easiest way into the old style locks.

(Other options, as noted above, include brute force and portable EMP generators...)

That does mean that if you use it to lock someone out of something (as opposed to locking them in), it's pretty easy to undetectably and non-destructively unlock it (and potentially re-lock it) with minimal tools. By comparison, the older lock needed you to at least peel the cover off the lock display. Tighter tolerances between the shackle and the hole it slots into would help here. You could also make a shroud that would prevent that attack, but that would be a bit of a pain.

In summary, compared to the old style locks:
  • Pros:
    • the whole thing feels a lot more solid;
    • it's a little more flexible in how you can use it;
    • the lock opens automatically so you don't need to fiddle with the unlock button; and
    • the sound is much more polite.
  • Cons:
    • the thicker shackle will reduce its usefulness;
    • it retains many of the quirks of the old style's user-interface; and
    • It's a bit too easy to shim open undetectably.
Basically, it's just generally nicer than the old style plastic timer locks, but it won't fully replace them.
Last edited by ruru67 on 09 Mar 2021, 05:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Kinbaku
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Re: Timer padlocks again (new model)

Post by Kinbaku »

ruru67 wrote:Well, they finally turned up. I won't open one up, since redsonic already did, and covered that off pretty well.
...
In summary, compared to the old style locks:
  • Pros:
    • the whole thing feels a lot more solid;
    • it's a little more flexible in how you can use it;
    • the lock opens automatically so you don't need to fiddle with the unlock button; and
    • the sound is much more polite.
  • Cons:
    • the thicker shackle will reduce its usefulness;
    • it retains many of the quirks of the old style's user-interface; and
    • It's a bit too easy to shim open undetectably.
Basically, it's just generally nicer than the old style plastic timer locks, but it won't fully replace them.
Thanks for the detailed explanation. For the thicker shackle you can use a number of zipties (a single one is too weak) that you insert into the narrower opening to make a larger opening for the padlock.
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ruru67
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Re: Timer padlocks again (new model)

Post by ruru67 »

A couple more things:

First, you can clear the timer by pressing the H & M buttons together when the lock is unlocked, so you can zero it without starting the countdown. This works on the old locks too; I just hadn't noticed. (It's not mentioned in the instructions.)

Second, I ran the battery down to see how it behaved as its power ran out. I did this by repeatedly pressing the lock button to run the opening mechanism. It took a ... l o n g ... time (just idly pressing the button while watching videos or reading). I didn't count the number of operations, but at about one cycle per second for hours, it probably operated several thousand unlock cycles. And this was just with the charge it held out of the box - I didn't charge it myself.

When the battery is getting low, the display flashes. When in that state, you can set the timer, but if you press the lock button, nothing happens; it doesn't lock or even start the countdown. If you've already closed the lock, you can reset the timer to zero (use the H+M trick I noted above) and press the lock button to open it.

With the display flashing, it took a lot more unlock actions (several hundred) before the display started to noticeably dim, and eventually die. It happily unlocked all the way through that, even when the display was barely readable, only failing to open when there was no sign of life. This of course is with a new lock and a fresh battery, but unless the battery has deteriorated so that it is discharging very rapidly, you should not be able to start the timer and not have power to unlock when the timer runs out.

I note that on recharging, it very quickly (a minute or two) got to where, if I disconnected the power, the display did not flash to indicate low power. I wouldn't recommend using it in that state - when you charge it, charge it properly (until the backlight stops flashing), as a brief charge may not be well distributed through the battery, which could (for a time) fool it into thinking the battery has more charge than it actually does. If that's the case, it could discharge unexpectedly quickly, potentially defeating the low-battery protection described above. Full charge (at least until the backlight stopped flashing) took a couple of hours. I'd make a point of restarting the charge sometime before use or any time it's been left idle for a long time to to ensure it's topped up.

When the lock runs completely out of power, it fully resets, including re-enabling the emergency reset feature (which I described in my previous post). If that happens, you'll want to disable "emergency reset" again by triggering it three times (start the timer, hold H+M for 10 seconds until it resets, repeat).
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Kinbaku
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Re: Timer padlocks again (new model)

Post by Kinbaku »

ruru67 wrote:A couple more things:
...
Thanks again. I have ordered 2 so that I can use them in chain. Your description shows that they are very safe. If I chain them after having both charged, I am almost certain that I will get out of my self-bondage. I will probably leave the Emergency Reset on. I have enough self-discipline not to use it, but in case of an emergency I can still escape quickly. :)
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Re: Timer padlocks again (new model)

Post by ruru67 »

I don't think I'd go as far as saying they're "safe". The electronics appear to be fundamentally the same as the older ones, and I've had battery problems with those. As I recall, I'm not alone in that. Chaining them together or otherwise configuring your scene so that if either fails, you'll be able to escape (or at least get access to tools) when the other releases is a good idea.

I haven't tested these new ones to destruction, but I feel the older ones are more likely to come apart if forced, e.g. I've had the cable come out of the metal fittings, and I think twisting the old style cable could put a fairly fearsome amount of pull on small plastic parts. The new ones have solid metal shackles and metal catches.
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Kinbaku
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Re: Timer padlocks again (new model)

Post by Kinbaku »

And there is still the option of shiming with a piece of bent plastic or metal. :D
Of course I will be punished by myself for opening too early. :evil: :rofl:
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