estim + needles vs nipples

Post your scenarios here. You can also request a scenario here.
Post Reply
KinkInSpace
*****
Posts: 2141
Joined: 24 Dec 2015, 16:11
Location: Netherlands

estim + needles vs nipples

Post by KinkInSpace »

Introduction
If there's one thing I'm quite experienced with, is combining estim and needles and use these on my nipples.

A few years ago, I would have been terrified by this idea and would have this high on my no list. But I overcame my fears and now this is very high on my yes list.

There are a few reasons why I only seldomly do this.

1. A scenario like this really takes time to have the best time. This is not a quick do it and done. This can take hours of your time.
2. It is very easy to orgasm, and that is something I desperately want to avoid. It also is what makes this really good, because you'll be near an orgasm for sure.
3. There is some care before and after that is very important.
4. Well, it does hurt. And even though that is the point of it all, it does make me hesitant every time I do a session.

Different ways
There are actually different ways you can do estim and needles when it comes to nipple play.
When doing estim, you always have the question: are we doing unipolar or bipolar play?

For those unfamiliar with the terminology because search lead you to this post:
  • Unipolar means, electricity goes from one nipple through the chest to the other nipple and back to the estim unit on one channel.
  • Bipolar means, electricity goes to one nipple, through the nipple and out on the other side back to the estim unit on one channel. You use 2 channels to stimulate 2 nipples, but the electricity does not cross the chest.
The next question is going to be, nipples only or something else too? This essentially is unipolar play where one lead splits in 2 and is connected to both nipples at the same time, where the other lead is connected to another body part, such as the genitals. The biggest problem with this setup, is that you need to crank up the electricity in order for it to be very effective, and if your genitals can take some estim, you will mostly feel it on your nipples, and not so much on your genitals. This kind of play is usually done where the slave is suspended in the air, standing on a metal surface where they are the conductor themselves. If they stand on the metal, their nipples are shocked and they feel it well on their feet, so they want to jump and not touch the metal. Because the distance is quite far, the estim levels won't be super high. This essentially means that once the slave surrenders to the estim, they'll quickly get used to the electricity and the effect is gone. With needles this is more interesting, that's true, but the levels will still not be extremely high. This is also something that I would definitely do with a partner and not solo, so lets skip this option for now.

Needleplay can also be done in many ways.
You can skewer the nipple which means, needle goes in parallel to the body on one side, and the needle exits the nipple on the other side.
You can also insert the needle directly into the nipple. Caution for this method is advised, the longer the needle is, the chance of going in too far becomes greater. If you go for inserting needles, find needles that have a length of 13mm. They are great. You can insert them fully without risking any injury to vital organs. For inserting needles, this is basically the only way to do it, but with skewering, you have more options. You can skewer the nipple at different heights away from the body, and even below the nipple into the corona or even further out if you have long enough needles.

Although the nipple itself will definitely hurt most, I find the pain it gives far more pleasing than skewering below the nipple, through the corona, but both have their charmes.

You can skewer with multiple needles at the same time, and you can also choose to insert a few needles at the same time, although this is quite limiting due to the handle of the needle being big. But I've inserted 5 needles at the same time without a problem, and was definitely nice.

But this topic is not about estim or needleplay, but to combine them.

Estim + Needleplay scenarios
Here are a few different scenarios you can do depending on what kind of effect you're after.
  • Bipolar skewer: skewer 2 needles through a nipple. You can choose to create a cross and you can put one needle close to the body and the other through the middle of the nipple. Attach aligator clamps, connected to a channel on your estim device, one channel per nipple.
  • Unipolar skewer:You skewer 1 needle through each nipple. You connect aligator clamps to each needle and connect them to one channel on your estim device.
  • Insert + estim: When you insert the needle into the nipple, if you use 13mm length needles you have no surface area to attach the aligator clamp to. But that's alright. If you have estim nipple clamps, you can put them on your nipple with the needle and nipple between the clamp and it will work wonders as the needle is made of metal and thus conductive, you will definitely feel the estim around the needle intensifying the effect. If you have enough experience with inserting needles to know what length goes in the body, you can use longer needles, such as 20mm or 30mm. With much of the needle sticking out of the body, you can attach an aligator clamp directly to the needle. Keep in mind that this will push the needle towards the body and thus somewhat be uncomfortable. This is not an issue. Just be sure that the needle doesn't come out of the nipple at any time. If the aligator clamp is too far away from the body, it will pull the needle more around due to gravity. If its close to the nipple, that will happen far less.
  • Skewer + nippleclamp: Just like with the insert, you can skewer the nipple and then put a nippleclamp over it and apply estim that way. You can even have 2 unipolar nipple clamps attached to each nipple with a skewered needle through the nipple and attach one lead to the needle and the other to the unipolar nipple clamp to effectively create a bipolar nipple stimulation.
As you see, plenty of options.

The feeling
Now each method has its own feeling, and trust me each feeling is different from the other, so it is worth it to try them all. You should note though, that if you apply estim through the needle into the nipple, the estim is intensified by a large margin. This means that you will feel it really well on a very low setting where you normally would feel very little to none. If your estim unit is digital and the first setting after turning it on is already pretty much there, then you really do not want to use this estim device from the start. Use it on the nipples without the needles first to get used to it, work your intensity levels up and only then, turn off and attach to the needles.

bipolar estim will be felt only on the nipple, very much concentrated to whatever you attached it to. This means that if you skewer 2 needles through one nipple and estim that, both needles will cause a lot of pain the more intense you start to play as if both needles are lit on fire and they heat up more and more. Of course this is not what happens, but it will feel like that. Very intense.

unipolar estim will be felt very direct on the nipple, but will be felt on the chest too, although not as strong because the estim is simply not that intense. This will feel like someone surgically implanted a vibrator directly in the nipple and that is turned on. On very little intensity, it may feel a bit painful, sharp even, but it quickly turns into vibrations and you can then get stronger and stronger and stronger and even stronger vibrations. This easily gets me an orgasm every single time. I have to slowly work up the intensity and fight my will to increase it faster. If I give in to that urge, an orgasm is nearly inevitable.

If the estim is not directly attached to the needle, but rather still to the nipple that has a needle inside, the clamp will put pressure on the needle itself and you already will feel that. Basically the clamp will intensify the feeling of the needle the longer the estim goes on. It definitely makes it an interesting experience, but the estim will be very much comparable to what you are used to, just with an additional flavor of pain in the mix.

footnote
Enjoy this knowledge bomb, and please reply with your experiences when you've done it. Also, feel free to post any questions or concerns, so I can reply to them.
Formally known as Slave_L.
I'm not yet very comfortable expressing my love for kink from my private life. I will therefor hide behind my username KinkInSpace and not allow any connections to who I really am. I'm sure you'll understand.
User avatar
kinbaku
*****
Posts: 5047
Joined: 10 Jan 2020, 20:26
Location: Belgium

Re: estim + needles vs nipples

Post by kinbaku »

Thanks for the detailed post.
I'm not there yet, but the more I read about it, the more I dream about it. :drool: :facepalm:
KinkInSpace
*****
Posts: 2141
Joined: 24 Dec 2015, 16:11
Location: Netherlands

Re: estim + needles vs nipples

Post by KinkInSpace »

If you haven't actually done needleplay, do that first. Start with small needles. needles of .45 mm diameter are considered beginners needles. When you buy them, don't buy in large quantities, because you'll soon realize that they don't really hurt. Its a good way to get familiar with needles and get past your fear. I'm on .8mm needles and they are good bdsm needles for casual play. It'll give a sharp pain when you use them but that pain will fade away depending on where you use them and how long ago you abused that body part. I can insert them through my nipples and it may give some after pain, but its not too bad. But simply start with .45 (smaller is pointless, really) and work your way up one or two sizes at a time. I went from .45 to .5 to .7 to .8 but I would probably advise to go from .45 to .6 to .8 instead. The difference between .7 and .8 isn't too big, but at .8 that's where it gets interesting.

Also, if you rush the needle through fast, it will definitely hurt more, but each size has a maximum pain it will give and only the .7 and up will give you enough pain to know this means business. But if you keep in mind that hardcore needle play is 1.2mm and up, and goes up to 2mm or more depending on the play, and yes, those will truly hurt no matter how slow or fast and will keep hurting afterwards, that is the ultimate goal. I bought 100 needles per size, and I'm still using them, but I already know that once this batch runs out, I will order a larger size for sure. Possibly .9mm as I think from .8 and up, stepping up one size at a time is good enough. But on the other hand .8 size is also the cheapest because that one is commonly used for bdsm play as it is painful enough, but not extreme.

But even with .45mm needles, you can combine them with estim if they are long enough, but even then I would suggest to wait with estim until you have reached .7 or higher because I think the thrill of the needle itself without estim is a big part of why this is so much fun. When these big needles went through, I will usually have them in me for an hour or more before I start estim and play with them just to warm up. This also helps me to avoid that easy to get orgasm. The bigger the needles, the easier it is to play with them because they are stronger so less chance to bend and also less chance to cause damage to your skin (for example, ripping the skin out due to too much force).

I do like to twist the needle 180 degrees rotating the nipple. It gives great pain but is very safe to do. Also hanging weights on them (but not too much) is great.
Formally known as Slave_L.
I'm not yet very comfortable expressing my love for kink from my private life. I will therefor hide behind my username KinkInSpace and not allow any connections to who I really am. I'm sure you'll understand.
User avatar
kinbaku
*****
Posts: 5047
Joined: 10 Jan 2020, 20:26
Location: Belgium

Re: estim + needles vs nipples

Post by kinbaku »

Thank you for the instructions on how to get started. At the moment I am still in two minds. :?
Will the devil or the angel in me win? :mrgreen:
KinkInSpace
*****
Posts: 2141
Joined: 24 Dec 2015, 16:11
Location: Netherlands

Re: estim + needles vs nipples

Post by KinkInSpace »

If you are brave enough to try anything, you will. Especially knowing that once you've done it once all fear goes away and you'll be like: psh... what the hell was I afraid of?
Formally known as Slave_L.
I'm not yet very comfortable expressing my love for kink from my private life. I will therefor hide behind my username KinkInSpace and not allow any connections to who I really am. I'm sure you'll understand.
User avatar
kinbaku
*****
Posts: 5047
Joined: 10 Jan 2020, 20:26
Location: Belgium

Re: estim + needles vs nipples

Post by kinbaku »

Slave_L wrote:If you are brave enough to try anything, you will. Especially knowing that once you've done it once all fear goes away and you'll be like: psh... what the hell was I afraid of?
Damage to the skin or something that leaves permanent marks have always been my limit. So no piercings or tattoos for me.
Even tanning in the sun is not for me.

On the other hand, my nipples are sensitive and strongly connected to the bottom of my body. Something not everyone has.
As with wooden skewers in the centre of the nipple, this skewer rotates around its axis so that the skin of the nipple turns at the tip of the skewer and bounces back due to the elasticity of the skin. :twisted:

So I'm currently at a crossroads in my further evolution in my BDSM. :facepalm:
KinkInSpace
*****
Posts: 2141
Joined: 24 Dec 2015, 16:11
Location: Netherlands

Re: estim + needles vs nipples

Post by KinkInSpace »

Yeah.... except that these aren't permanent marks. Huge needles, okay, they can leave scar tissue behind, but 0.8mm needles nope. Not through the nipple itself anyway. I think a minimum of 1.2mm needle is required before you can see scar tissue that remains, and also the kind of needle and what you do with it will be a huge factor. The needles used in bdsmplay, they give a very clean cut. They don't scar. Pointy pins, if big enough, they break through the skin rather than cut through it, and they can leave a mark if the diameter is wide enough.
Formally known as Slave_L.
I'm not yet very comfortable expressing my love for kink from my private life. I will therefor hide behind my username KinkInSpace and not allow any connections to who I really am. I'm sure you'll understand.
User avatar
kinbaku
*****
Posts: 5047
Joined: 10 Jan 2020, 20:26
Location: Belgium

Re: estim + needles vs nipples

Post by kinbaku »

Slave_L wrote:Yeah.... except that these aren't permanent marks. Huge needles, okay, they can leave scar tissue behind, but 0.8mm needles nope. Not through the nipple itself anyway. I think a minimum of 1.2mm needle is required before you can see scar tissue that remains, and also the kind of needle and what you do with it will be a huge factor. The needles used in bdsmplay, they give a very clean cut. They don't scar. Pointy pins, if big enough, they break through the skin rather than cut through it, and they can leave a mark if the diameter is wide enough.
I will probably start on it one day. Still busy with other things at the moment, but I already have something to look forward to. 8) :D
Degustibus2
*
Posts: 1
Joined: 02 Oct 2021, 13:16

Re: estim + needles vs nipples

Post by Degustibus2 »

I have a Beurer EM80 electrostimulation device. Can I use it as an estim in a selfbondage session?
Attachments
aparat-digital-eletrostimulare-tens-ems-em80-p530.jpg
User avatar
Shannon SteelSlave
Moderator
Posts: 6530
Joined: 03 Feb 2019, 19:49
Location: New England, USA

Re: estim + needles vs nipples

Post by Shannon SteelSlave »

Welcome to Bound Anna, Degustibus.
Bondage is like a foreign film without subtitles. Only through sharing and practice can we hope to understand.
A Jedi uses bondage for knowledge and defense, never for attack.
I am so smart! I am so smart! S-M-R-T!....I, I mean S-M-A-R-T!
👠👠
User avatar
kinbaku
*****
Posts: 5047
Joined: 10 Jan 2020, 20:26
Location: Belgium

Re: estim + needles vs nipples

Post by kinbaku »

Degustibus2 wrote:I have a Beurer EM80 electrostimulation device. Can I use it as an estim in a selfbondage session?
Welcome Degustibus2. Of course you can. First try it out without you in bondage, so to know what to expect; then you can do it in a light selfbondage where you can remove your bondage immediately when needed.
Afterwards you can use it in a session where you can not escape from the stimulants of the Estim. :mrgreen:
KinkInSpace
*****
Posts: 2141
Joined: 24 Dec 2015, 16:11
Location: Netherlands

Re: estim + needles vs nipples

Post by KinkInSpace »

Although Kinbaku is correct, it is not as obvious as he makes it seem.

Yes, you can use this and it is safe, but the sole reason why we can say so, is because the display shows the word "tens". This is very significant, because there are estim devices out there that use a different technique called EMS, which stands for Electro Muscle Stimulation. This type of estim goes much deeper into the body and is more powerful. Although this can still be used, it is not as safe as a TENS unit. TENS can be used anywhere when common sense is applied, EMS can only be used once you understand what EMS means, how it affects your body and when you know where your limits are and you will not cross those limits.

The biggest problem with an EMS unit, if you crank up the intensity too much and you play solo, you can get to the point where you cannot move, rip your muscles or worse. Also, not safe across the chest obviously.
Formally known as Slave_L.
I'm not yet very comfortable expressing my love for kink from my private life. I will therefor hide behind my username KinkInSpace and not allow any connections to who I really am. I'm sure you'll understand.
KinkInSpace
*****
Posts: 2141
Joined: 24 Dec 2015, 16:11
Location: Netherlands

Re: estim + needles vs nipples

Post by KinkInSpace »

New update for the first post
I found a good way to do needles + estim and avoid an orgasm.

I needed the DG-Lab Coyote for this, but basically any estim unit that you can somehow make it so that it automatically increases the intensity in very small steps with a predefined time in between will help you.

If I put my DG-Lab Coyote with AutoIncrement on (I use the XToys.app but the build-in feature works great too), I choose the pattern I want to use and start on a very low setting that I barely feel the estim with an incremental delay of 120 seconds (aka 2 minutes). In my test with the DG-Lab, just the unit itself, not app controlled, setting it on at the very first setting already produced more estim than I thought it would. Kind of high feeling actually, but that faded down quickly. If I use the app itself however, I can go up to intensity 5 before I feel anything, and up to 7 or 8 before I can say, yes I definitely feel this, now its getting fun.

I found this 7 setting and then dialed it back to 5 with the auto increment turned on with a 120 second delay. I put everything away and just relaxed in the dark enjoying the feeling for as long as I could.

The more intense it became, the more it hurted. In fact, every single incremental setting, even from 5 to 6 was quite a big step considered that normally you do feel it getting more intense but its not a big step and thus not too painful.

But here it is quite a big step, where every time it happens, you are like: OMG, this hurts. Given you have 2 full minutes to get used to the feeling, it takes maybe 30 seconds, especially at the higher levels, to get used to the feeling. Because of the 2 minutes and you get used to it, you never get to the point where you start building up for that orgasm. Its the quick increases that bring that orgasm, the 2 minute delay is great to prevent that. As you get used to each increase, you can go as high as you can tolerate.

When I reached an intensity of 25 it was really strong, but I could take it. 28 was the first level that was actually intensely painful. Every strong zap was like the needle reinserted. I was able to go up to level 32 depending on what program I used, but that was incredibly painful. I was in agony the whole time, and I fricken loved it.

Now that said, the DG-Lab Coyote goes up to level 278 to give you an idea of how strong this really is, and when I do estim without needles the same way, I usually START around level 40-50 and go up to 70-80 depending on how much pain I want. level 80 normally is about the same as 29 with needles. And I feel no estim at all until I reach around level 22.

So yeah... I do think because the levels are so much lower, this is much safer too.
Formally known as Slave_L.
I'm not yet very comfortable expressing my love for kink from my private life. I will therefor hide behind my username KinkInSpace and not allow any connections to who I really am. I'm sure you'll understand.
User avatar
kinbaku
*****
Posts: 5047
Joined: 10 Jan 2020, 20:26
Location: Belgium

Re: estim + needles vs nipples

Post by kinbaku »

Thanks for the warning (because I had not looked at the settings of the device and with this device you can choose between a TENS and an EMS setting :oops: :facepalm: ) and the update. What program did you use when using the DG-lab alone? Was it that one that you make yourself?
KinkInSpace
*****
Posts: 2141
Joined: 24 Dec 2015, 16:11
Location: Netherlands

Re: estim + needles vs nipples

Post by KinkInSpace »

Actually no. I set for selecting random patterns, changing every one minute with AI on, or setting for one particular pattern and use that.

The needle+estim was done using xtoys.app though, and there I used the sins one, my favorite, although I am trying out some of the other ones and there are really good patterns out there, such as Waves alternating.
Formally known as Slave_L.
I'm not yet very comfortable expressing my love for kink from my private life. I will therefor hide behind my username KinkInSpace and not allow any connections to who I really am. I'm sure you'll understand.
Post Reply