AI and what it means to kink

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Jadit
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AI and what it means to kink

Post by Jadit »

Just want to give this little tip; artificial intelligence is coming well within our lifetimes, and it's going to change everything. Virtual girlfriends or even dommes that can observe you on camera and talk with any voice you can imagine. To this level they don't need real sentience yet, just adapt to your personal desires. Theoretically humanlike sentience may come some later point aswell. Brain-Computer links that make you experience something truly lifelike but virtual. None of this is scifi anymore, you can read in google about all different experiments done so far.

Funny thing is that we are actually approaching age of Star Trek at rapid rate, and it's going to be way more advanced starting point when we reach the star travel part 8) Assuming we don't blow up Earth first...
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bound_jenny
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Re: AI and what it means to kink

Post by bound_jenny »

Jadit wrote:Virtual girlfriends or even dommes
Me being replaced by a machine? Someone's gonna get whipped behind that! :whip: :mrgreen:

I personally doubt that there is effective enough AI to produce more than a reasonable simulation of that. There will always be a situation where what is perceived will not be in the system's database and it will respond incorrectly and spoil the fun. Other than Siri with an attitude, don't expect much.
Jadit wrote:we are actually approaching age of Star Trek at rapid rate
I want to command a starship on a style like the alternate universe (where Spock has a beard), because it's nastier. :twisted: I'll order the creation of a cross between a phaser and a whip, just for fun. :whip: Harry Mudd will gladly go back to Stella if he crosses me. :lol:

At least the Klingons will like me. :rofl:

Jenny.
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Re: AI and what it means to kink

Post by aeon »

Jadit wrote:Virtual girlfriends or even dommes...
At the risk of starting a metaphysical discussion, who cares if such a thing was possible? What makes the relationship interesting isn't so much *what* is being done, as *who* is doing the what. At least IMHO.
Case in point: I can have my safe keep me bound for a random time. But it's much more interesting to bind myself, and then have to depend on a real person to let me out again. But maybe that's just me; I prefer to interact with a person and a brain. Preferably a person *with* a brain :wink:
Even when the machine on the other end can pass the Turing test 8)

And replacing Jenny should be a crime :wink: :whip: :gag:
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bound_jenny
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Re: AI and what it means to kink

Post by bound_jenny »

aeon wrote:And replacing Jenny should be a crime :wink: :whip: :gag:
Now that's sweet! :love:

And the other possibility - what if all these cybernetic Dommes start going Terminator or Cylon on us? :shock:

Maybe I'll do it Caprica way and start preaching to them... :idea: :mrgreen:

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If my corset isn't tight, it just isn't right!
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Re: AI and what it means to kink

Post by Riddle »

My Arduino circuits pass the Turing test while I am bound. They say and type the exact same things as real humans under the same conditions: nothing. The Arduinos do not have a way to communicate. My bondage partners follow what was negotiated. A slight difference. The big difference is a little more complicated. Humans can do more than talk and interact. They can monitor breathing, check finger color, and alter the situation as needed. Beyond that, they care about my safety and experience. Artificial intelligence is further from reaching these more complex behaviors. I believe Jenny is safe from being replaced any time soon. She may get an artificial minion able to fetch her whip and tie corsets, but there is no replacing her whip skills any time soon.
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Re: AI and what it means to kink

Post by Blacky »

There's one more major advantage coming with a human dom(me).
They can always come up with a completely new idea. Something that no AI I know of can do.
All that a µC/Pi/you name it can do is already in it's code. And as I am the one who writes the code for the devices I use they can only come up with what I was able to think of and implement.

Thus I'll never get into the awestome state of mixing fear and ultimate trust when being at an AI's mercy.
If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. (W. Blake)
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aeon
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Re: AI and what it means to kink

Post by aeon »

Blacky wrote:Thus I'll never get into the awestome state of mixing fear and ultimate trust when being at an AI's mercy.
Exactly. The fear part is easy (be it from AI or a human); combining it with trust is something I'll happily constrain to human beings :)
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Re: AI and what it means to kink

Post by Jadit »

Other than Siri with an attitude, don't expect much.
I know it can feel like that when observing present "smart" software, but they are going to be replaced very hard in coming years. They're like those 1970's 10 ton rooms for a computer.
aeon wrote:
Jadit wrote:Virtual girlfriends or even dommes...
At the risk of starting a metaphysical discussion, who cares if such a thing was possible? What makes the relationship interesting isn't so much *what* is being done, as *who* is doing the what. At least IMHO.
Case in point: I can have my safe keep me bound for a random time. But it's much more interesting to bind myself, and then have to depend on a real person to let me out again. But maybe that's just me; I prefer to interact with a person and a brain. Preferably a person *with* a brain :wink:
Even when the machine on the other end can pass the Turing test 8)
Maybe when we start giving the AI a more physical robot body, things get even more interesting. But before robot there is the AI for home computers for sure. I'm hoping first such would be possible in 2 years, is not a huge stretch considering where we stand now.

Why AI is more than a timed lockbox? Consider a lockbox that makes its own mind how long it's shut. Observing you, knowing when there is a urgent need to override the timer, or when you are simply fun to tease and make it longer. It can make you tasks and based on your performance at it, it can reward or punish you. Maybe it will just flirt with you on computer screen :P The thing is, these are not scripted programs at all. They can do almost anything you can expect anyone else to do. The line between computer and human will slowly start to vanish, first seen at internet chats where you'll no longer recognize if it's a real person on the other side.

In this regard i am also a believer for Singularity, where AI will learn how it's made of and improve on it. Scientists will use it to advance in technology faster, and then crack secrets of nanotech. With those we can give AI tools like remote controlled ropes, shapeshifting latex bags, or whatever you imagine. I'd imagine we can get there by 2040 earliest.
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Re: AI and what it means to kink

Post by aeon »

Jadit wrote:Maybe when we start giving the AI a more physical robot body, things get even more interesting.
The "A" in AI is my problem. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but for me a heap of metal/plastic/polymers/... controlled by AI is never going to come close to replacing someone like Jenny :whip: :wink: :gag:
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bound_jenny
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Re: AI and what it means to kink

Post by bound_jenny »

aeon wrote:
Jadit wrote:Maybe when we start giving the AI a more physical robot body, things get even more interesting.
The "A" in AI is my problem. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but for me a heap of metal/plastic/polymers/... controlled by AI is never going to come close to replacing someone like Jenny :whip: :wink: :gag:
Keep digging... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

There's nothing like a flesh and blood person to interact with in the wonderful world of bondage. That's something no toaster can replace, no matter how smart it is.

Jenny.
Helplessness is a doorway to the innermost reaches of the soul.
If my corset isn't tight, it just isn't right!
Kink is the spice of life!
Come to the Dark Side - we have cookies!
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Blacky
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Re: AI and what it means to kink

Post by Blacky »

Jadit wrote:...
Maybe when we start giving the AI a more physical robot body, things get even more interesting. But before robot there is the AI for home computers for sure. I'm hoping first such would be possible in 2 years, is not a huge stretch considering where we stand now.
Robotics would, of course, add to the experience. Granted. But there's still the issue of building up some sort of relation to a machine. It may be an option to some, to me it's not.
Depending on what you want to consider AI we already have it (among others: Siri). We might just as well haven't learned to walk (yet) but dream of running.
Don't misunderstand me here: There's nothing wrong about dreaming up the future. It's what made us leave the trees.
Why AI is more than a timed lockbox? Consider a lockbox that makes its own mind how long it's shut. Observing you, knowing when there is a urgent need to override the timer, or when you are simply fun to tease and make it longer. It can make you tasks and based on your performance at it, it can reward or punish you. Maybe it will just flirt with you on computer screen :P
The self-deciding lockbox is fairly easy to achieve via random timers. Also altering the timers seems fairly manageable. But how deep an understanding of human nature does that box need to be able to decide whether a failure to meet its set standards is a result of too little discipline or merely injury or illness? How will it be able to recognize and understand that unforseen circumstances occur?
Let's assume the box existed and had me under its control. My task would be to be back home from work at a specified time, which I normally could easily get done. How will the machine react if I have to work two hours longer than usual? Will it punish me for being late? Will it not, because it understands that "such things happen". What if I hadn't had to work but was off to the pub instead?

There's a long way to go for AI to get close to the real deal I suppose.
The thing is, these are not scripted programs at all. They can do almost anything you can expect anyone else to do. The line between computer and human will slowly start to vanish, first seen at internet chats where you'll no longer recognize if it's a real person on the other side.
To me the keyphrase here is "almost anything". I share your opinion of a blurring line between IT and humans. But I don't see it blur enough within the next few (<5) years. It might work rather smoothly with written language by now. But whenever I happen to encounter these horrible telephone-answering robots that ask you to voice out numbers I truely feel that we are very, very far from what you probably have in mind.
In this regard i am also a believer for Singularity, where AI will learn how it's made of and improve on it. Scientists will use it to advance in technology faster, and then crack secrets of nanotech. With those we can give AI tools like remote controlled ropes, shapeshifting latex bags, or whatever you imagine. I'd imagine we can get there by 2040 earliest.
Nanotechnology has some other inherent problems of which some are solvable, others not. Nature's laws don't bend. But shapeshifting materials are actually available today. They are extremely expensive, but available. RC-ropes are a nice idea, but technically the same thing.

That self-improving software you mention is something that I'd rather not want to encounter in a BDSM context. At least I'd very much rather not be the sub whos injuries tought the program to respect the limits of the human body. I know this is probably overstated, but I'm quite sure you understand what I intend to say.



Please don't feel offended. It's just my opinion, and maybe I'm just too reluctant to climb down the tree?

Regards,

Blacky
If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. (W. Blake)
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bound_jenny
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Re: AI and what it means to kink

Post by bound_jenny »

Blacky wrote:At least I'd very much rather not be the sub whos injuries tought the program to respect the limits of the human body.
I completely agree with that. An inexperienced machine could go a lot farther than a human before deciding it was the wrong thing to do. A human being is much more attentive to the sub's condition than any machine ever could. It would react more like the cold, calculating mad scientist experimenting on humans than an actual loving, caring human being, "oh, well, this experiment didn't come out right on this subject... let's bring in the next one, maybe it will work this time".

Part of the experience of cruelty in BDSM is the love and tenderness that's behind it.

One could argue that with adequate programming, it could simulate empathy, but I think that would be projecting our own wishes and personality into a machine that doesn't exist yet - a bit like attributing human traits to pets (it's a lot easier to attribute animal traits to humans, i.e. pet play :mrgreen: ).

It doesn't matter what one wishes that toaster to be, it's still going to be a toaster. Even the smartest toasters will still burn your bread once in a while.

Jenny.
Helplessness is a doorway to the innermost reaches of the soul.
If my corset isn't tight, it just isn't right!
Kink is the spice of life!
Come to the Dark Side - we have cookies!
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aeon
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Re: AI and what it means to kink

Post by aeon »

bound_jenny wrote:Part of the experience of cruelty in BDSM is the love and tenderness that's behind it.
Exactly. Being tied up (or pick your specific thing) is nice, but it's the relationship with the someone who does it that makes all the difference. Don't get me wrong, playing solo is fun too, but for me still a second-best option. But that might be because the best restraints work on the mind, not on the body. The most intense step in the entire process is the handing over of that control while trusting/having faith in the person receiving it. YMMV, IMHO, yada yada yada :gag:

However, I can imagine that for some people being at the mercy of a cold machine is a turn-on. It's not my thing, but there are many other things that are not my thing, yet they are still quite popular. Vegemite, for example :gag: :twisted: :wink:
One could argue that with adequate programming, it could simulate empathy
I'm not enough of a philosopher to construct a neat argument, but I'd say that "simulate" and "empathy" are mutually exclusive :wink:
It doesn't matter what one wishes that toaster to be, it's still going to be a toaster. Even the smartest toasters will still burn your bread once in a while.
:rofl: :rofl:

J (taking a short break from digging :wink: )
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Re: AI and what it means to kink

Post by Jadit »

aeon wrote:
bound_jenny wrote:Part of the experience of cruelty in BDSM is the love and tenderness that's behind it.
I'm not enough of a philosopher to construct a neat argument, but I'd say that "simulate" and "empathy" are mutually exclusive :wink:
Not exclusive. Our brains are actually equally cold simulators. It's just hard to really understand.

Here's also a vid you should see about where we are now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7eeV9VEtsA
Just think what they'll be able to do in a few years, after they further develop the tech? Learning algorithms are already turning any picture into works of famous old paint artists, single general AI's are made by at least 2 companies that are able to play and master (better than best human players) tens of atari games, based on just pixels they see on screen. They weren't scripted anything, they really learn, and pass the knowledge to next game they try.

And no, it wouldn't turn me on at all to try date a cold plastic bot. It's just a starting point though, towards more biological artificial bodies. You might call them androids. I read someone already figured out how to make that kind of very real skin feeling, like muscle.
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Re: AI and what it means to kink

Post by FatherOfFour »

Well, let me jump into that:
A) few years ago, in a reversed turing test, "they" (some University) unleashed some sort of primitive AI (with female profile) on a chat room. Guess what: dozens of flirts, date attempts and so... Where is Natural Intelligence?
B) I think (and reality proves it) that it's easier to transform people into robots than building them:
- think Nazi (and that experiment: Milgram)
- For all those (including me) who would rather be bound/released by a human being: would it be an orphan homeless junkie with no spark in it's eyes? Or Your trusty ice cube/timer/Arduino/...
C) People are beloved for their unpredictability. You would not know when or how they'll do something... Would You like the same "character" for Your car's brakes?
I know people used to rely on horses, and those horses were reliable. But they were tamed!
D) My wife might never know my kink. I know hundreds of people, and would not trust one with my kink! But I would trust a system designed by me, be it not even the best one...
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