Being submissive vs being a slave

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KinkInSpace
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Being submissive vs being a slave

Post by KinkInSpace »

Introduction
Being submissive and being a slave are two very common words in the BDSM scene, but I found out that they are not the same and not everyone does actually know what the difference is.

As a result, people often say they want one while they mean the other, and given that I was one of them until I understood the sheer difference, I decided that this is something that we need to have written down.

Aren't they just the same thing though?
No. Of course, both entail the same principle, but the concept of both vary. When you talk about being dominated by a Dominatrix, you can both be a submissive or a slave and no, they are still not the same thing.

What's the difference?
The difference between being a submissive and being a slave come down to how much responsibilities you have in your role.

Even though a submissive will not be allowed to go against the will of their Domme, anything that happens to them is still their responsibility. It is up to the submissive to communicate their needs and furthermore, once a session ends, they return back to their normal lives, including their daily responsibilities.

A slave on the other hand, completely surrenders their responsibility and once they are a slave, their responsibilities are being transferred to the Domme. The Domme will make every single decision for the slave, and all the slave can do is follow them.

Being a submissive
When someone is a submissive, they allow the Domme to take control in certain activities and are willingly subject to the will of the Domme, but the Domme will not be responsible for every single aspect. The submissive will have to tell the Domme if they need to pee for example, or if they feel sick for whatever reason, the submissive will have to communicate this as well. When a session is over, the submissive becomes a normal person again and their normal live continues. A submissive basically participates in cos-play.

Being a slave
When someone is a slave, they completely surrender every aspect of their lives to the Domme. The Domme will have to monitor every aspect of the slave as if it were their own lives and every command the Domme makes will keep in mind what the slave can and can't do. In a Master/slave relationship, the Master will never ask something from the slave that the slave can't or won't do, unlike with a Domme/submissive game where the Domme may do this and issue punishment for not doing something. This type of punishment play is not happening in a Master/slave relationship because when the Master tells the slave to do something, the slave will simply do it, and all feelings, emotions, etc are all removed from the life of the slave to please the Master as best as they can. Because it is incredible hard to know someone's true limits, codewords can be used to signal limits, such as orange/red, where orange is used to communicate: I will do as you wish, but please note, you are getting really close to my limit, and red means: I'm sorry, but this is past my limit, please abort. A Red always ends whatever was asked. For example, a Master who gives the slave objectives to do but the slave is really tired from all assignments, and physically is not capable anymore of doing anything may call a Red and then is sent to bed to rest.

When a session is over, the slave will continue to worship the Domme in any way. A session with a slave is completely different to a session with a submissive for that matter. A slave basically is a lifestyle.

Why is all this important?
I too have fantasized in being a slave, being told what to do and get punishment when I refuse to do something. But if you understood this post correctly, then you can already spot that this is the submissive cosplay and not the slave lifestyle.

For that matter, even though I'd like to be a slave, I would want to go back to my normal life after a few days to a week maybe, another reason why this doesn't fit the slave category but more being a fantasy for a submissive.

Common grounds
There are of course options to be a slave while being in a submissive cosplay, but unless a Domme is fully trained and prepared for this, its almost never going to be a full slave lifestyle.
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I'm not yet very comfortable expressing my love for kink from my private life. I will therefor hide behind my username KinkInSpace and not allow any connections to who I really am. I'm sure you'll understand.
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Re: Being submissive vs being a slave

Post by AllieXBow »

Interesting, I was just reading a few stories online about being a slave. One of them did it for 14 years. I'm very interested in trying, but for a week maximum.

So are you also saying that a dom will be less "playful" and more "serious" towards a slave? So it will be less "lets play a card game/board game, and if you lose (oh noes :)) I will have to punish you, hehehehe :D. And more of "Alright. Clean the house. Do it now."
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KinkInSpace
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Re: Being submissive vs being a slave

Post by KinkInSpace »

Exactly. A Master/Slave relationship is all about the slave pleasing their master and get gratification of it and relinquish total control.

Its a bit similar to pet play or nursing where the submissive takes the role of a pet or baby and must be cared for. The biggest difference with pet play and nursing is that these are often play sessions and very little are they lifestyle, whereas submissive is a subset of being a slave, and as such a slave is actually lifestyle and doesn't end after a session or a week, but its something you commit to, similarly as to how you would commit to being in a relationship with someone.

In essence a Master/Slave is a form of a relationship.

A good example of what could happen is this:
Slave is asleep, Master wakes up, looks at the clock and knows it is not too early. Master is horny, wakes up slave and tells slave to suck his cock. Slave is sleepy and really doesn't want to, but Master said so, so slave gets over it. Master gives slave a minute to wake up, then Slave starts to suck his cock. Slave may get sexually aroused from it or not. If so, that is a bonus for Slave, nothing more. Master is done and orders Slave to stop. Slave may have gotten more in the mood but its not up to Slave. Master goes out of bed, sees that slave is still a bit tired and orders slave back to bed.
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Re: Being submissive vs being a slave

Post by AllieXBow »

Ah pet play is interesting too, but can it also be. 24/7?

I also fantasied about it but probably won't be able to experience it. Even for a week it won't be the proper experience. Because I heard that there is an adjustment phase of a few months before the routine is established, and for one to fully "break in" and transition. The first few months I guess will be like a training or transition phase where you would only be a slave in training, and still have a connection to your past life. Once past that I guess you properly adjust and have your past life left behind fully, once the 'brainwashing/stockholm' kicks in.

Just my thoughts, may not be true.

All this sounds very serious. I see many young/new/frenzied subs seeking a master/slave relationship online. I think they should reconsider what they are getting into. Once again I shouldn't judge others and people may truely know what is best for them but still...
Restrict one of your senses, you heighten the others. Close your eyes, you can hear better. What if you're unable to move, speak, nor see, yet only able to feel the pressure of the ropes tightly yet blissfully binding your body, how free must the mind be?
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Re: Being submissive vs being a slave

Post by KinkInSpace »

Yes, as I mentioned, pet play is usually session based but has the exception where it is lifestyle, but only rarely. In those rare occasions, it lasts a longer time and becomes a lifestyle.

Basically if you talk about being a slave, you automatically talk about being a slave for a long time. If you want to be that slave but only for sessions at a time or limit the time to a week max, you are automatically talk about being a submissive. And my post was basically made to make this distinction clear. They are confused with one and another but they have clear differences. I wouldn't be surprised if with pet play, the word play indicates it being you as pet submissive, and that there is another word such as pet lifestyle, where you would be a pet slave and that people also confuse that.

When people online search for a master/slave relationship, I'm pretty positive they do know what this means and that they want it. The keyword here is a relationship. But now, I could also be wrong.

As for the breakin time, yes, a true lifestyle has a longer break-in time to get fully into a mode. It often starts with laying down the foundation, rules and expectations and then at the start of being a slave, one will undergo slave training to learn certain movement patterns and keywords. It is this time where not only the slave learns, but the Master as well. They will closely monitor the needs of the slave and their reaction to learn what they can and cannot ask from the slave. At the beginning stage, the Master may still ask or interrogate the slave until the transition period is gone. At that stage the slave completely says goodbye to any form of responsibility and do no longer have any free will. The only way for a slave to regain their free will is by terminating the relationship altogether. And by that, I mean: they split up entirely. From such close relationship, one cannot convert back to a normal couple.
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Re: Being submissive vs being a slave

Post by Lotharjulz »

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Re: Being submissive vs being a slave

Post by Lotharjulz »

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Re: Being submissive vs being a slave

Post by KinkInSpace »

Lotharjulz wrote:I'll not so sure it is that black and white.

For example: I gave up my physical freedom in private to someone else. I'm considered, called, and treated like a pet. I'm constantly restrained wherever vanilla folks cannot see. This has been my lifestyle for close to a decade. The only power I have (I believe) is to end it all for good. If my owner asks me to perform oral sex, I have a limited choice. I can either do it or suffer a punishment which is usually worse than just performing the act. I got a taste of some freedom during last Christmas as we were visiting family and it did snap me out of the routine. I contemplated trying to dial down our bdsm but didn't want to risk ending it all. All I can say is the the grass is always greener on both sides.

I also have a day job so it requires me to be released every workweek day, however, my partner is so anxious about it that my keys are available on a time lock and I have to release myself not in their presence. At the end of the workday I'm expected to secure myself upon returning home and am frequently greeted at the door with a collar in their hand regardless.

I do however make decisions as equals in life type of things. Buying expensive things, retirement investments, sometimes I get to pick movies to watch, food to eat, etc. So I wouldn't say I've given up all my responsibilities. Generally I don't have physical freedom, required to do most household chores, and any sexual act.
Yes, so you fall under the pet play category, not a slave, or both of you are not playing the master/slave game right, but given you say you are treated like a pet, this obviously sounds more like petplay. My post does mention pet play and states that it is different there, but the true master/slave game is all about the slave having no responsibilities and the only thing it can do, is do whatever the master wants. The idea here is to mimic actual slavery but in a more sexually and mutually consent setting. In a slavery situation, the slave can't do anything, is locked up because the master is very careful about not losing his possession or let anything bad happen to it. Its not something that you do for a bit but it is a genuine lifestyle, similarly to what you describe, except that the slave really has no say over anything, because that goes against the slavery principle. Being a pet is different in that an owner of a pet may learn the pet some tricks and then the pet can use those tricks with their own responsibility to perform them at will and get punishment if done incorrectly. So yes, you are definitely doing pet play as lifestyle.

Because petplay and also baby play (nursing) allow for the submissive to have some responsibilities, they are often done in sessions, but yes, there are occasions where it has turned into a lifestyle. Given that sessionbased is possible with these, they happen more often in sessions rather than becoming a lifestyle, which is why I said: they are mostly in sessions and very little in lifestyle. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but just not as often as in sessions.
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Re: Being submissive vs being a slave

Post by Lotharjulz »

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Re: Being submissive vs being a slave

Post by Shannon SteelSlave »

I have only heard of it in fiction. Lots of what ifs and normal character developments seem to be ignored. But I am not out to criticize, fiction BDSM is one place I do not peak behind the curtain.
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Re: Being submissive vs being a slave

Post by JIMDINI »

Bear in mind that in most countries that slavery is outlawed total slavery, if discovered by some third party, could end up before the courts. Courts will not put a lot of faith in any testimony that it was 'all consensual on both sides' if it is clear the 'master has total control of every aspect of the 'slaves life. So I suspect all of the 'master/mistress slave relationships' will have obvious independent areas e.g.Lotharjulz.
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Re: Being submissive vs being a slave

Post by Lyn »

JIMDINI wrote:Bear in mind that in most countries that slavery is outlawed total slavery, if discovered by some third party, could end up before the courts. Courts will not put a lot of faith in any testimony that it was 'all consensual on both sides' if it is clear the 'master has total control of every aspect of the 'slaves life. So I suspect all of the 'master/mistress slave relationships' will have obvious independent areas e.g.Lotharjulz.
In the States it varies by state. (In some ways the U.S. is like a set of 50 different countries.) I think it is a good idea to proactively find out the laws in your country or state and even consult a kink friendly attorney for the best ways to prevent legal problems. Obviously if one partner ends up severely injured or dying due directly to BDSM you will have a problem defending yourself in court, but what happens if the submissive just gets sick or something and has to go to the hospital and is found to have bruises and other marks that cause the medical people to notify police?

In some states in the U.S. you cannot even consent to be whipped, never mind full time slavery. They pass these laws because some abused partners will claim they consented out of fear of retribution from their abuser. According to our attorney, the best hedge against legal trouble is to document somewhere in writing not only that you consent, but that you are into it as a kink, and have a long standing record of your enjoyment of it. Something concrete that can be produced in court, like a diary or printouts of online posts, that can be proven you wrote it in the case you're not alive or conscious. Also make sure some of your friends and family know about it. That part we haven't done yet, still can't pull the trigger on telling anybody.

Anyway, doing this might not get a master accused of abuse completely out of trouble but it will help your defense. If it's a case of full time slavery probably the same thing applies, in some locations you cannot consent to be a slave but if you document over time how much it is your desire to live that way, it might help if you somehow end up in court. The best thing of course is to be scrupulously safe in everything you do so hopefully it will never become a legal issue.

I guess you could call me a part time submissive according to OP's definitions. In most ways we share power in our relationship. In the full time slave situation, I worry about the slave, over many years, maybe not having the skills needed to function if something were to happen to the master. Financial matters for example, even just paying the bills, technology moves so fast that if you don't keep up, you could find yourself in a predicament if suddenly left alone. Planning for retirement, writing up end of life documents, all of that, I would think it unwise to completely turn over all power and responsibility for all of that to a master.

Even in vanilla relationships when one partner handles all the bills over many years, it's a problem when they die or become incapacitated, then the other needs to learn to catch up really fast. But beyond basic tasks, the decision responsibility is another, maybe more significant layer. If you spend years or decades turning over all decisions to someone else, I would think you'd be out of practice and not equipped to run your own life if something were to happen to them.

But I am a strong advocate of individual freedom - including freedom to become a slave if you want! - and wouldn't support any kind of law or regulation forbidding people to do that. And I don't sit in judgment if that's your thing. For some people it may work very well, especially if they've been together a long time and have developed trust, and the master has made provisions to guard against his slave being left alone, such as making sure he/she keeps up with basic life skills.
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Re: Being submissive vs being a slave

Post by Lotharjulz »

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Re: Being submissive vs being a slave

Post by KinkInSpace »

The sole reason I posted this, was because I saw an interview with a slave who disclosed how she was doing it, why she was doing it and how her relationship with her master was.

They were a couple, he is self employed and she helps in his business working from home. He controls her life fully and she doesn't want it any other way.

I could share the link to the interview, but its dutch, so only a handful will actually be able to understand it.

Anyway, here is the interview. In case YouTube offers auto-translation, that would be neat. :) This is from dutch tv btw. They are very serious when it comes to their topics but they do tend to take the more unorthodox topics too, such as kink, drugs, sex, etc...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVrs6I8t9n4
Formally known as Slave_L.
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Re: Being submissive vs being a slave

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