self-bondage = self harm?

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lj
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self-bondage = self harm?

Post by lj »

provocative title to attract your attention to a question.

My Lady and I were watching a TV police drama, and the murder victim was found to have self-harmed (scrubbing legs with bleach and a brush, causing chemical burns). So I was asked the question, in so many words

OK, you're a masochist (guilty...) and you like bondage, whether by yourself or with someone else applying it (guilty...) so how is that different from self-harm?

My answer was that the combination of pain+ bondage produces an enjoyable and positive response (endorphins, sexual excitement) whereas self-harm would seem to be self-punishment for some perceived wrong-doing, a negative response. To which she replied that some self-harmers say they derive peace and contentment from their actions. As self-harm is not something I have ever experienced (as opposed to a painful SB session) I can't comment.

We would be interested in your thoughts.

(please note I am making no judgement of people who self-harm, just as I expect no judgement on my actions and kinks!)
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Gregovic
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Re: self-bondage = self harm?

Post by Gregovic »

I think it's also that the vast majority of masochists like the sort of pain and harm that isn't permanent whereas for many self-harming I think they don't really care if it leaves permanent marks (or may even prefer it). I think that is where I would draw the line between masochism and self-harm, permanency of the pain/injury.
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kinbaku
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Re: self-bondage = self harm?

Post by kinbaku »

And the disease symptom of self-harm also exists. Usually triggered by a stressful situation or a silent cry for help.
So a illness different from self-harming because you want it yourself.
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Shannon SteelSlave
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Re: self-bondage = self harm?

Post by Shannon SteelSlave »

As possibly one of the few here that enjoys a bit of rough torment, I can say that I ask myself all the time where the line is between what I think I am doing and self harm. My biggest fear in being discovered is that on lookers may push that line past the self harm mark in their own judgement and become concerned. I think I personally know that my play is not self harm for the purpose of punishment, but find that constantly questioning it keeps me not only safe, but also more aware. Keeps me from drifting over that edge.
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bound_jenny
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Re: self-bondage = self harm?

Post by bound_jenny »

I remember reading about the difference between a healthy activity and an unhealthy one (i.e. pathological). It is just that - if it consumes you to the point that it's detrimental to your health, to your ability to function day-to-day, or even the health of others (the SSC principle), then it's unhealthy, thus qualifiable as self-harm, or harmful to others. It's a problem that needs attention.

But what we generally practice is none of that. A few rope marks are a minor embarrassment in public but usually we find a way to compensate. We use our kink to either add variety to our intimate life or as a way to expend negative emotions from a hard day in the rat race (seriously, dealing with day-to-day frustrations and irritations, without a way to sublimate them, is far more harmful than an occasional hogtie to wriggle them out).

I feel better when I have that outlet. It's a form of therapy all its own. But the line between the healthy release through kink and an all-consuming obsession is very fine.

It's the ability to remain on the right side of that line that keeps us safe and sane.

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JIMDINI
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Re: self-bondage = self harm?

Post by JIMDINI »

bound_jenny wrote:But what we generally practice is none of that. A few rope marks are a minor embarrassment in public but usually we find a way to compensate. We use our kink to either add variety to our intimate life or as a way to expend negative emotions from a hard day in the rat race (seriously, dealing with day-to-day frustrations and irritations, without a way to sublimate them, is far more harmful than an occasional hogtie to wriggle them out).
Unless you class being frustrated when we screw up the timing on a release we usually know when our discomfort will cease, and we can always go for the emergency release. We tend to go out of our way to avoid long term marks and injuries, rather than trying to cause them. Even if we have painful indulgences (spankings, Estim, etc.) these are hardly long lasting harmful events.
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Re: self-bondage = self harm?

Post by Lyn »

I think both self harm and kinky pain/bondage trigger endorphins. The self harmer needs the endorphins to escape emotional pain. We do it just for the high and associated sexual pleasure.

Self harm is usually associated with psychological disorders such as depression, anxiety or BPD, and often a history of abuse or trauma. Self-bondage or BDSM might have none of those pre-existing conditions and if they do, they aren't the root of the fetish. I think most of us have been this way from early childhood, way before the onset of these issues.

I was four years old when I knew I was a "masochist", of course I didn't know that word and had no idea what it was or why I felt that way. I just have a memory of seeing a picture of someone getting spanked and feeling great pleasure over it, and furthermore, instinctively hiding that fact from everyone. All during childhood, I loved seeing people tied up on TV shows and gravitated to shows where people would get chained in dungeons, or tied up and interrogated, or whipped, and so on. There was no abuse at all in my life, my childhood was very tame. I might have anxiety now, but it developed way later, long after my fetish was well established.

The categories might overlap a bit; there are probably individuals who have a genuine fetish but also self harm for the aforementioned psychological reasons, but I think these two things are distinctly different in most people.
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Re: self-bondage = self harm?

Post by KinkInSpace »

The biggest (and maybe only?) difference is the reason why.

Someone who does self-bondage does this because they want to specifically do that bondage to them for the reason of love for what it brings.

Bondage by itself does not even have to hurt. Its just the act of restricting ones self, regardless of if you do something else to yourself while being bound.

Self harm is not. People who do self harm do this because they miss something else. Usually those that do self harm have been hurt so much that they feel completely numb. They feel nothing, and by doing self-harm, they want to feel something just so they feel once again. It is a psychological thing to deal with a different pain than what the self harm is causing. People who do self harm will not have the mindset to want to be in bondage either, because that is not the point.

I would therefor think we should restate the question here.

Is self-inflicted harm the same as solo bdsm play that involves pain?
Because in essence, that is what people are discussing here.

And again, I would say no for the reasons stated earlier. BDSM play that involves pain will only stimulate some parts of the body and only up to a level that is still enjoyable to the player, whereas self-inflicted harm seeks the painlevels beyond that for the sole reason to feel pain because an event caused them to not feel anything.
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Re: self-bondage = self harm?

Post by jackles »

I actually wrote a short article about self-bondage as a form of mindfulness: https://authorjessicaackles.medium.com/ ... d7b0a89d0f

I don't see it as self-harm at all, but I'm sure it can spiral into that for some people.
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kinbaku
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Re: self-bondage = self harm?

Post by kinbaku »

A difficult question. For example, when I think of some children who relieve their stress through self-pain and self-harm. There, too, those endomorphins are released and they release their stress. So all in all not as different as some of us do with self-bondage combined with pain.

So I would rather go to the intention and the why. When we hurt ourselves, it is (usually) not the intention to have pain, but the relaxation that follows and the endomorphins that are released. This in relation to someone who intentionally hurts/injures himself with the intention of being hurt.
Sometimes the thought alone can suffice: blowing the whip in the air or the fear of getting pain as a punishment if we don't comply with the master(ess).

If the intention is to permanently damage the body, I would rather speak of self-harm. Although this is only a general concept of gray areas: think of tattoos, piercings, holes for earrings, the rings under the neck or the large disk in the lower lip on certain tribes.
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