Using 3-number combination lock as 6-number

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Using 3-number combination lock as 6-number

Postby Jadit » 10 Jan 2022, 12:31

lock_arrow.jpg
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A regular 3-number combination lock when looking at it from top side has a very clear margin between 2 numbers going through the middle. So from that perspective you can look at 2 numbers of each column in sequence. For example 21, 54, 09.. or shorten 215409. I did only 1 try of this strategy and the whole thing faded from my memory... can't remember a single number for some reason but it's still written in a text file. I don't usually have problems remembering 3 numbers though.

That said it is relatively easy to brute force a lock like that just be trying all combinations, i've opened it that way as well a couple times. It's not bad for backup release though. But if you make a 4-number lock into 8 or 16 then that's a different matter... You can technically look at 4 numbers or more per column.
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Re: Using 3-number combination lock as 6-number

Postby KinkInSpace » 10 Jan 2022, 16:41

How is a 3 number lock a 6 number lock? Just by offsetting the number a bit, it can still be opened by either the 1st or 2nd digit. There's always a little bit of margin on those locks. So you are making it hard to remember a 6 number lock, while anyone brute-forcing the 3 number sequences will still break it.

So, I would recommend against it. If you really want to go 6 numbers, get 2 padlocks, label the padlocks 1 and 2 and make both lock the same object and set different combinations for both locks.
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Re: Using 3-number combination lock as 6-number

Postby Blacky » 10 Jan 2022, 23:15

KinkInSpace wrote:...
If you really want to go 6 numbers, get 2 padlocks, label the padlocks 1 and 2 and make both lock the same object and set different combinations for both locks.


That's still just 2.000 combinations. A 6-digit, 10 settings per digit padlock would provide a million possibilities. So the brute force attempt would still be a lot easier on the two 3-digit locks.
A 4 digit lock would already provide 10.000 settings, so you ought to increase the number of dials on the same lock to make it harder to bruteforce it.
Another possible way to go is to increase the amount of possible settings per dial.
A padlock with 3 dials will provide

- 216 settings if equipped with 6 settings per dial,
- 1.000 settings if equipped with 10 s.p.d.
- 17.576 settings if equipped with 26 s.p.d. (Will be hard to find, but alphabetical dials do exist!)

With four dials and the same 6 / 10 / 26 settings the resulting possibilities are 1.296 / 10.000 and a whooping 456.976 combinations.

Not sure whether this helps?

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Re: Using 3-number combination lock as 6-number

Postby ruru67 » 11 Jan 2022, 01:07

I'm not fully following Jadit's process, but I think the point is to scramble the lock and record the combination in a way that you can't easily remember the combination after writing it down, not to actually add combinations to the lock (which is, obviously, mechanically impossible).
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Re: Using 3-number combination lock as 6-number

Postby kinbaku » 11 Jan 2022, 07:36

ruru67 wrote:I'm not fully following Jadit's process, but I think the point is to scramble the lock and record the combination in a way that you can't easily remember the combination after writing it down, not to actually add combinations to the lock (which is, obviously, mechanically impossible).

You can write down the numbers that are visible from above (or at the back). These are different from the numbers that appear on the dashes. I don't know if that's what Jadit means, but it's a possibility.
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Re: Using 3-number combination lock as 6-number

Postby bound_jenny » 11 Jan 2022, 08:34

:idea: I might be completely off the tracks here but what I understand is to use the positions between the detents, to wit:

Jadit wrote:For example 21, 54, 09.. or shorten 215409.


Basically, its (2 | 1) - (5 | 4) - (0 | 9), aligning the index line on the case with the "|" separation line between actual number positions.

I have an old 3-number lock somewhere dating from time immemorial (we're talking 70s, baby!) that looks almost exactly like Jadit's photo (except it's nickel plated).

Or I'm completely off and I need more coffee... :rofl:

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Re: Using 3-number combination lock as 6-number

Postby kinbaku » 11 Jan 2022, 09:44

bound_jenny wrote:Or I'm completely off and I need more coffee... :rofl:
Jenny.

No, you are well awake: it is always a difference of 1 (10-1=9).
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Re: Using 3-number combination lock as 6-number

Postby Jadit » 12 Jan 2022, 14:50

ruru67 wrote:I'm not fully following Jadit's process, but I think the point is to scramble the lock and record the combination in a way that you can't easily remember the combination after writing it down, not to actually add combinations to the lock (which is, obviously, mechanically impossible).

This method of mine does not increase amount of combinations on a lock, it is just as easy to brute force as it is normally.

What i mean is that with normal 3-combination lock you can't easily make a random sequence, write it down somewhere and try to forget it during a session. When you have a sequence of 6 numbers it is very likely that you will not remember all the numbers. You would need to remember every second even or odd number to build a valid sequence.

In a session the lock would only act as a backup release, but after some ice-lock or timer releases you, you would get access to the right combination numbers and open it easily.

Also a 4-number combination lock is already so difficult to brute force that i would NOT recommend to use such as a backup release.
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Re: Using 3-number combination lock as 6-number

Postby Blacky » 12 Jan 2022, 15:53

I didn't realize you wanted to use the lock as a backup.
In that case I tend to agree. A four digit lock is probably too much then.
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Re: Using 3-number combination lock as 6-number

Postby kinbaku » 13 Jan 2022, 08:53

Jadit wrote:What i mean is that with normal 3-combination lock you can't easily make a random sequence, write it down somewhere and try to forget it during a session. When you have a sequence of 6 numbers it is very likely that you will not remember all the numbers. You would need to remember every second even or odd number to build a valid sequence.

In a session the lock would only act as a backup release, but after some ice-lock or timer releases you, you would get access to the right combination numbers and open it easily.

Also a 4-number combination lock is already so difficult to brute force that i would NOT recommend to use such as a backup release.

You can use also the codelocker program together with the TimelockForImages, described in the same post.
In the case of a paper with the code I would use a 15 digit code with every 5th digit the number of the lock. A person can easily remember a list of 7 things, immediately if you use more than 7 it becomes more difficult if you do not use a system.
A 4-number combination lock can used as a 3 combination when you leave one number on the solution. Make sure you don't accidentally move this one. :shock:
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