Preparing a larger session... or sessions.

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Lost Soul
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Re: Preparing a larger session... or sessions.

Post by Lost Soul »

Yeah, that's the one big thing I can find wrong with it too. I guess you could use a smaller block of ice, or even a cube. I just went with that since it was stated as the object being used to create the block. No reason you can't cut a smaller hole in the cooler lid. :)
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Re: Preparing a larger session... or sessions.

Post by Aurora Borealis »

That's an interesting concept :D

Current thoughts: I might go with Pykrete even if it doesn't last much longer than ice. It's supposed to be concrete-hard, so I wouldn't be able to break the block by throwing it against the ground or something like that. Also, read that you can use torn newspapers to form Pykrete, but I'm guessing it might affect its melting abilities?

On some day when the freezer is empty (usually it is not) I shall attempt freezing various shaped ice containers and then see how long it takes them to melt. Also checked: 2l container = 0.44 gallon (for those who use this system instead) :)

I know we have somewhere a plastic bag with double layers that's good to transform frozen foods. No idea how long that holds. But it would be easier to put the ice block inside of the icecream container wrapped in a bag or two like that, and then put it into a padlocked leather bag? I wonder how long that would keep cool inside. Then, let's say the 2l takes six hours to melt when pulled out (I'm totally guessing here) I could stack up three or so of these. One "open" block, two locked. First one melts, I get the key that opens the padlock to the second one, then I pull it out, it melts, I open up the third one which finally has the set of keys to let me out.

Theoretically I could drag it out for an entire week (since I'd have ten days) but who knows what my mental state would be after a week, probably not very good :lol: That's why two days is the upper limit here.
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Re: Preparing a larger session... or sessions.

Post by lj »

just thinking outloud :)

from my brief experience with a PVC suit covering only the body, down to "shorts" length, you get very hot very quickly Would a latex cat-suit be safe for two days confinement. It would prevent the cooling effect of sweating, though no doubt you would, making the inside very wet. Is there a danger of "thermal runaway"? I suppose if you got too hot you could cut it off as a last resort.

I really don't know, and wonder if anyone else can advise AB ?

If it was me, I'd use an electric timer and an electromagnet to hold the keys somewhere you can't reach in when restrained. For example, if you use a short "hobble" chain you can move around but not climb steps or stairs, so something high up would be out of reach. I've used this method with the electromagnet in the roof, above the access hatch, with the keys and magnet in a long narrow tube so you can't hit it ith a pole to free it (you'd be amazed how inventive you can get after a few hours :lol: ).
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Re: Preparing a larger session... or sessions.

Post by thedude »

Aurora Borealis wrote:But it would be easier to put the ice block inside of the icecream container wrapped in a bag or two like that, and then put it into a padlocked leather bag? I wonder how long that would keep cool inside. Then, let's say the 2l takes six hours to melt when pulled out (I'm totally guessing here) I could stack up three or so of these. One "open" block, two locked. First one melts, I get the key that opens the padlock to the second one, then I pull it out, it melts, I open up the third one which finally has the set of keys to let me out.

Theoretically I could drag it out for an entire week (since I'd have ten days) but who knows what my mental state would be after a week, probably not very good :lol: That's why two days is the upper limit here.
If you're doing that, then you might want to be sure to lock the bag to the inside of the freezer, as well. Otherwise, you could pull the bags out still locked, and they'd start melting anyways.

My other thought: Two days is perfect. Afterwards, if it wasn't enough, you could always take a break, then still have time left for 4-5 days, if you started early.
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Re: Preparing a larger session... or sessions.

Post by Aurora Borealis »

lj wrote:just thinking outloud :)

from my brief experience with a PVC suit covering only the body, down to "shorts" length, you get very hot very quickly Would a latex cat-suit be safe for two days confinement. It would prevent the cooling effect of sweating, though no doubt you would, making the inside very wet. Is there a danger of "thermal runaway"? I suppose if you got too hot you could cut it off as a last resort.
Well, I have no personal experience in this area yet (not much anyway) but from various things that I read I picked up this. There was a blog by a woman (I think it's still running) who did an experiment of living 24/7 in latex. Or as close as possible. Since it was going to be constant, she had to change her suits daily. On the other end I've read reports by people who did experiments of staying locked in latex for 2-3 days without any problems.
(Also, I think pvc and latex react to heat differently, one being plastic, the other being rubber.)

It seems that it is doable under few condition. You have to move slower than usual (no running around the flat, which makes sense as I'd be blindfolded and in heels, no way I'm running or even walking fast) and 2 days should be doable unless I have some latex allergy (and as far as I know I don't). Or at least that's what I read online :)
lj wrote: I really don't know, and wonder if anyone else can advise AB ?

If it was me, I'd use an electric timer and an electromagnet to hold the keys somewhere you can't reach in when restrained. For example, if you use a short "hobble" chain you can move around but not climb steps or stairs, so something high up would be out of reach. I've used this method with the electromagnet in the roof, above the access hatch, with the keys and magnet in a long narrow tube so you can't hit it ith a pole to free it (you'd be amazed how inventive you can get after a few hours :lol: ).
Ah yes, but this is a flat, meaning every corner would be reachable by a broom ...except those spots where I wouldn't put the keys anyway from the fear they'd fall behind furniture or something. Also, I wouldn't know how to set up something like that (it'd probably would require some sort of assembly to put it together and I'm totally lame when it comes to electricity of any kind, can't even fix a light switch, haha).

Thinking out loud is welcome. The more I figure out now, the less I'll have to worry later and the more precise will be my tests and experiments to see what will work and what won't.
thedude wrote:
Aurora Borealis wrote:But it would be easier to put the ice block inside of the icecream container wrapped in a bag or two like that, and then put it into a padlocked leather bag? I wonder how long that would keep cool inside. Then, let's say the 2l takes six hours to melt when pulled out (I'm totally guessing here) I could stack up three or so of these. One "open" block, two locked. First one melts, I get the key that opens the padlock to the second one, then I pull it out, it melts, I open up the third one which finally has the set of keys to let me out.

Theoretically I could drag it out for an entire week (since I'd have ten days) but who knows what my mental state would be after a week, probably not very good :lol: That's why two days is the upper limit here.
If you're doing that, then you might want to be sure to lock the bag to the inside of the freezer, as well. Otherwise, you could pull the bags out still locked, and they'd start melting anyways.
The freezer is empty inside, smooth walls and all. And the fridge below has removable shelves so I couldn't padlock it there anyway (which COULD work with pykrete if I understood it right that it keeps perfectly frozen without melting in lower temperatures even if it isn't below zero). I could padlock the freezer itself, but that'd work only once (can't padlock the fridge itself due to the fact that the surrounding furniture is too close on that height)
thedude wrote: My other thought: Two days is perfect. Afterwards, if it wasn't enough, you could always take a break, then still have time left for 4-5 days, if you started early.
That... yeah, that could work. Do however many hours I can get, free myself, and then return (if I felt like doing more) :lol:
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Re: Preparing a larger session... or sessions.

Post by thedude »

Aurora Borealis wrote:There was a blog by a woman (I think it's still running) who did an experiment of living 24/7 in latex. Or as close as possible. Since it was going to be constant, she had to change her suits daily.
I would really, really like to know the address of the site, if you have it. :mrgreen:
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Re: Preparing a larger session... or sessions.

Post by Aurora Borealis »

thedude wrote:
Aurora Borealis wrote:There was a blog by a woman (I think it's still running) who did an experiment of living 24/7 in latex. Or as close as possible. Since it was going to be constant, she had to change her suits daily.
I would really, really like to know the address of the site, if you have it. :mrgreen:
Sure, it's a blog which I luckily happened to bookmark :D

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Re: Preparing a larger session... or sessions.

Post by thedude »

Success! I went and picked up a bag of fairly coarse sawdust today, and have it in the freezer right now. I'm freezing three seperate blocks, one pure water, one with sawdust, and one with toilet paper (since it pulps easier). In a few hours, I'll take them out of the fridge, and compare how long they take to melt. I'm not overly thrilled about the sawdust I have though, it's not very powdery like I'd hoped. If it even /looks/ like it wants to work though, I'll likely try sawdust of the kind they sell for hamsters next.

Results should be up by later tonight! :mrgreen:

EDIT: Still no real test results, but for the toilet paper blocks, using a blender really helped get the pulpy look I was after. I'm freezing a couple bonus blocks there... one normal consistency mix, and one I strained free of standing water. (Put it in a strainer, unpacked, just until it stops actively dripping, leaving paper pulp paste.) Then I cleaned the blender and made a smoothie. :D

EDIT 2: Hokay, raincheck. My test methodology was flawed. I let them sit on a cutting board with a raised edge and waited for them to drop. A couple hours later, I got all "dude, wtf?" and checked each by poking them. They'd melted considerably--but the TP/wood was left behind in the original shape. There'll be another test tomorrow, where I'll actually put some weight to each, THEN see how they fare.
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Re: Preparing a larger session... or sessions.

Post by Aurora Borealis »

Thanks for sharing results so far. I lost internet access for about a week.
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Re: Preparing a larger session... or sessions.

Post by subwayne »

have you thought about using dry ice?

people use it for camping and stuff because of its slow melt time? you wont be able to freeze anything in it tho...

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Re: Preparing a larger session... or sessions.

Post by bound_jenny »

Dry ice is damn cold, colder than a Canadian winter (as cold as a Martian winter, though...), and requires special handling precautions. It's also not commonly available like plain water and a freezer. And as you said, you can't freeze anything into it because you get it as is, already frozen.

And the last detail - dry ice doesn't melt. It goes directly from a solid to a (toxic) gas.

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Re: Preparing a larger session... or sessions.

Post by onestrangeguy »

bound_jenny wrote:Dry ice is damn cold, colder than a Canadian winter Jenny.
Aw gee Jenny, Dry ice only goes down to -100 degrees F. That can't be colder than a Canadian winter! :roll: I was there once in the summer and it sure felt cold then. :wink:
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Re: Preparing a larger session... or sessions.

Post by bound_jenny »

onestrangeguy wrote:I was there once in the summer and it sure felt cold then. :wink:
Wimp! :P :P :P

I just saw the mention of Pykrete... Mythbusters had a segment on that, and they found that frozen, stacked sheets of newsprint were very solid and took even longer than "textbook" Pykrete to melt.

They actually made a boat out of the stuff! With a big motor!

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Re: Preparing a larger session... or sessions.

Post by nitro »

bound_jenny wrote: And the last detail - dry ice doesn't melt. It goes directly from a solid to a (toxic) gas.
Jenny.
Technically it is not toxic, we breath it all the time CO2. It will displace oxygen in quantity and will settle to low areas (ie. the floor) and therefore can cause suffocation. Use with adequate ventilation and use gloves to handle it. In some areas of the US (like Florida) the grocery stores sell it to keep your food cold for the drive home (some people have a long drive to the store). We also get frozen food shipped in the mail and have some solid chunks in the package that have not "melted". It is nice that there is no cleanup.

It would not be easy to freeze anything in it but it could be used to keep the ice frozen longer. It might also work in an ice release but it does not last long out in the open.

Here is New York's health department info on dry ice
http://www.health.state.ny.us/environme ... ry_ice.htm
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Re: Preparing a larger session... or sessions.

Post by Aurora Borealis »

Ok, thanks for all the answers :D

Sorry but I was unable to visit the forum in quite a while (other stuff was getting in the way). Sadly, I didn't manage to collect everything necessary for my original idea so I'll probably do some slightly more restrictive but not so longlasting variant of the above.

Big thanks for the info (and the warning) on dry ice. I have no idea where I'd search for something like that over here, but I'd probably be staying close to the floor anyway (so not to be spotted by the neighbors, after all I'd be blindfolded so I woudln't know when to duck out of sight) so that might prove unsafe.
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