Vacuum bed self bondage

Post your thoughts and ideas on safety here.
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bound_jenny
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Post by bound_jenny »

The proper address is http://www.kinkengineering.com/blog.html

That's a tragic event. This guy knew vac beds inside and out and he got killed by one anyway - solo. Nuff said.

Jenny.
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howling
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Post by howling »

I'm new to writing on these forums, but now i'm ready to write about my truly fantastic experiences in vac beds after been following this thread for a couple of years understanding everyone's views etc about this topic.
I won't be going into to much detail as this thread hasnt been added to for a while now. Not to sure if i'll get a responce.
I've gained a lot of knowledge and i truly believe i've found a very safe way of having fun in a vac bed on your own with minimal safety concerns!
howling
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Post by howling »

lj wrote:hopefully you have got the message

DON'T DO IT!!!!

I have experienced a vacbed and it is the most restrictive thing I have ever been in, great fun, but there was a nice Dom right next to me with the on/off switch. Some people freak out with the restriction, straight into panic attacks, even though they thought it was a good idea to start with.

Did I say DON'T DO IT ????
I've stayed patient for a couple of years and have listened, learnt and tested (not myself) and have 5 safety precautions lined up for a VB. I finally tried after test after test and was extremely satisfied i would be nearly be 100% safe, 99.9999% to be exact. It can be safe if you do the right setup before hand. I've been in over 50 times and it's fantastic. Obviously people have to have the knowledge and experience to say it's safe. It's not safe for people who haven't thought outside the box searching for the safest way.
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Sir Cumference
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Post by Sir Cumference »

bound_jenny wrote:The proper address is http://www.kinkengineering.com/blog.html
That's a tragic event. This guy knew vac beds inside and out and he got killed by one anyway - solo. Nuff said.
Jenny.
howling wrote: I've stayed patient for a couple of years and have listened, learnt and tested (not myself) and have 5 safety precautions lined up for a VB. I finally tried after test after test and was extremely satisfied i would be nearly be 100% safe, 99.9999% to be exact. It can be safe if you do the right setup before hand. I've been in over 50 times and it's fantastic. Obviously people have to have the knowledge and experience to say it's safe. It's not safe for people who haven't thought outside the box searching for the safest way.
Interesting, that there is only one post between these two posts!
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Jadit
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Post by Jadit »

I think 1 of the unpopularity for vacuumbeds come from the requirement that is a loud air pump/vacuum cleaner, even if it's with a partner. Also the special 2 meter frame you need... not to mention price. Only after the beforementioned things are solved, one starts thinking about making the system safe, and for what selfbondage is concerned, it might require some good electric engineering skills.

Statistically more people die in car accidents than vacuum beds... What i mean is, risks are there no matter what we do. Vacuum bed has relatively high risk in theory, but the possibility for safe use still remains.
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bound_jenny
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Post by bound_jenny »

Jadit wrote:Statistically more people die in car accidents than vacuum beds...
In either case, death usually results from improper (i.e. dumbass) use of said items.

Jenny.
Helplessness is a doorway to the innermost reaches of the soul.
If my corset isn't tight, it just isn't right!
Kink is the spice of life!
Come to the Dark Side - we have cookies!
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leopard99
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Post by leopard99 »

Jadit wrote:I think 1 of the unpopularity for vacuumbeds come from the requirement that is a loud air pump/vacuum cleaner, even if it's with a partner. Also the special 2 meter frame you need... not to mention price. Only after the beforementioned things are solved, one starts thinking about making the system safe, and for what selfbondage is concerned, it might require some good electric engineering skills.

Statistically more people die in car accidents than vacuum beds... What i mean is, risks are there no matter what we do. Vacuum bed has relatively high risk in theory, but the possibility for safe use still remains.
Sorry to say that's abuse of statistics. How many people use vacbeds? Perhaps a few thousand. How often? Don't know but probably not every day. How many people use cars? Perhaps a billion or more, many of them every day. How many have died because of vacbeds? 1 that we know of and likely a few near misses. How many die because of cars? Don't know but 100000+ per year might be a fair guess. The exact numbers aren't important. For cars, you can in principle get statistically valid figures for deaths per road mile, deaths per year etc. For vacbeds the total numbers are so small that you can't. To illustrate with an example: A newspaper headline says "Deaths from cholera in London doubled last year". You look at the detail and find that 2 died this year against 1 last year.

As for the other problems. Some vacbeds are nearly airtight so the vac can be switched off for long periods. Or can be run at low speed so it doesn't make much noise. Or use a long extension vacuum pipe so the vac can be in another room. You can buy a vacbed for under £200. Lots of people spend a lot more than this on latex clothes and other kinky stuff. I made my own PVC vacbed for well under £50.
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Post by lj »

I was at a sky-diving school a few years ago (no, I wasn't jumping !) and chatting to one of the instructors. He said that sky-diving is safer than fishing, the stats being based on the amount of time participating relative to the number of deaths.

This may seem counter-intuitive, but it comes down to the care taken by a sky-diver EVERY time they jump, knowing death is the likely result of error. A bit like rock-climbing, which I have done quite extensively. But how many fishermen (hobby ones) even consider safety ? The most common causes of death are casting a carbon-fibre rod near a power line, and drowning as a result of overbalancing is a river whilst wearing waders.

We all have to asses risk, whatever we do, and there is no such thing as "no risk". But the general opinion is that vac-beds are not suitable for self-bondage.
be a switch, double the fun :-)
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bound_jenny
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Post by bound_jenny »

Which comes down to the two very separate principles of danger and risk.

Danger is the deleterious consequence of doing something. Risk is the probability of something wrong happening that will endanger life or health.

Risk can be increased by doing something stupid, like yakking on a cellphone or texting while driving a motor vehicle.

Risk can be decreased by taking proper precautions that actually prevent bad things from happening, not just what you think will prevent them (the aforementioned skydiving example comes to mind, though I still don't see the point of jumping out of a perfectly functioning airplane... I'd rather disembark in the conventional manner, after the aircraft has safely landed... :P :P :P ).

Precautions usually imply multiple safety mechanisms which must all fail in order to cause injury or death, and these mechanisms were designed by people who are knowledgeable in their fields and have been thoroughly tested over and over and over again to ensure that nothing can go wrong. Vac beds do not benefit from that, and the only truly safe and reliable safety mechanism is a two-legged one standing next to the device. No matter how much anyone thinks their jury-rigged "safety mechanism" is infallible, it isn't. If something does go wrong, the person in the vac bed is trapped, completely helpless to intervene.

It is true that nothing we do has zero risk. Our responsibility is to mitigate those risks as much as we can, and if we can't, to be able to recognize that it's not worth the risk to attempt doing something.

Jenny.
Helplessness is a doorway to the innermost reaches of the soul.
If my corset isn't tight, it just isn't right!
Kink is the spice of life!
Come to the Dark Side - we have cookies!
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Post by morbidotoaster »

I often think about doing vac bed self bondage, I not quite sure how it is being in one. I think it is quite safe to be doing it with a bed that has a neck gasket and with two timers, with a proper vacuum cleaner that can handle the pressure (test if first) and with a secondary release like something you can cut your way out in an emergency. I have never tried it out, but I think of it as is safer then most other self bondage techniques.
Tenderfoot88
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Post by Tenderfoot88 »

The problem is you have no struggling failsafe. All movement is pressed against a membrane that's designed to just sit there and hold you down. Many scenarios do most of the bondage to yourself - in which case you can, if all else fails, wriggle yourself outside to get arrested for public indecency (hey it's better than being found dead a month later). And even when it's tying you to something else, the point ties allow you to do something. Admittedly a worst case scenario isn't much better, but the complete immobilization of a vaccuum bed gives you very few options between best and worst case. With ropes (and chain, I suppose) you have other opportunities at your disposal.
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Post by bochago »

I have done vacbed self bondage many time. I would not denied there is a risk as it is the same for many activities when you do it alone. There are many things you can do to make it safer. There are two major type of vacbed. One is airtight
which you do not require constant vacuuming. The other type is non-airtight and you have to keep the vacuum running. I personally have not tried an airtight VB. An airtight VB is more difficult for solo play since most airtight design require another person to seal the opening from outside.
Although, some people managed to create a good seal by rolling up or tugging the opening under than bed. If you were able to create a good seal with an airtight VB on your own then the potential risk of not being able to free yourself is lower. However, it will depend on the type of breathing hole equipped. If the VB equipped with a big open for full face exposure or both mouth and nose then it would be impossible for the vacuum packed person to release them-self. If with a small hole for only mouth or nose breathing then one can easily release the vacuum seal by blowing air into the VB. From what I read from the internet, I personally do not recommend VB with neck collar open since it could create pressure to the neck. It would be better to have just a bigger hole to allow full face exposure. When using a non-airtight VB, since you have to keep the vacuum
running which mean even if
you try to blow air into the VB to release the suction it will become seal up again very soon. Usually, the suction is not as strong with this kind of VB as the air is constantly leaking through the opening while most of these VB are using regular zipper. You can create less suction by leaving a small gap when closing the zipper.  I use a digital timer to control the on and off for the vacuum and I use a small shop vac so the vacuum itself have a fan to keep it from over heating. I do not suggest to use vacuum that have potential to be over heat and use that as a release. I personally would not want one more risk factor add into the equation if it catch a fire. Using double timer or even triple timer is a good approach unless you are very careless with programming. From my own experience, I was able to release myself even when the vacuum is still running. I would first try to blowing air into the VB from my nose or mouth depending on which one is covered inside the VB. With a few quick blow, usually it will release the suction a little bit for a very short time. I can usually get small movement for my hand. I would repeat this action until I can move my hand to the zipper to pull it open. While doing that, you should keep your head in the same position so you can always breath through the hole. Sometime, I would also move both of my hands to the side of my head. Then after blowing some air into the VB, I would push the latex up away from my face with both hands, these will allow air to come through the hole and release a lot of the suction. Then you should able to use one of your hand to open the zip. Before successfully opening the zip I still try to keep my head in the same position so that when the
suction become strong and sealing up again, I can easily position the opening to my mouth or nose again for breathing. You do need some practise to understand the strength of the suction of your own setup. So always start with short period of time until you get a good understanding of your own setup. You can always hold a utility knife in one of your hand as a last option to cut through the latex. 
lj
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Post by lj »

I'd suggest anyone wanting to find out what it feels like to be in a vac-bed goes to a Munch or play-party and find someone who has one and is willing to run it with you in it. A friend of mine has one and I've been in it. The grip is total, no movement possible, not even a little wriggle - it would be difficult to move a hand enough to use a knife to cut through the membrane, and if the membrane is flexible enough, it will simply seal either side of the cut.

Bochago may have survived many times, but as has been said several times in this thread, vac-beds really aren't suitable for self-bondage, particularly those with just a breathing hole and cover the face.
be a switch, double the fun :-)
Zimon
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Post by Zimon »

As mentioned, a guy I know lost his boyfriend because of VacBed Selbfbondage! So if any one would like to try one for SB, do have a safety person watching you, standing beside you as a safety! He/She will not react to the SB unless there is an energency. So thus this being a real SB session, except you are not alone in the room!
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Post by uncannymoebius »

Vac beds sure seem fun tho! I'd like to experience it sometime in the future with someone running it.
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