Vacuum bed self bondage

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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Postby Blacky » 06 Mar 2012, 00:22

Zimon wrote:Then you arrange with youre mistress that she will be in the next room. And in your hand you have a walkie talkie or another device with an alarm siren or something that alert the person in the next room. Then it will only take a few seconds for that person to storm inn and assist in an emergency.


I guess that cannot work, because:

On a normal day the atmospheric pressure will press the upper latex layer of the vacbed down with a force of 10 N per cm^2. That equals the force created by one kilogram for every squarecentimeter of skin on the finger you want to move. Approximately the length of an index finger is about 10 cm. Its diameter is about 1 cm.
The total surface will then approx. be 32 squarecentimeters.

Are you sure that, when in panic, you can move 32 kgs with nothing but your index finger?
For my own part, I'm sure I can't move them when not being in panic!

For the obvious reasons: It cannot work!

P.S.: On a bad weather day with less atmospheric pressure the weight you'll need to overcome with just one finger will still be significantly more that 25 kgs.
PLEASE, do not try this!!!
If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. (W. Blake)
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Postby bound_jenny » 06 Mar 2012, 01:28

Do not underestimate the ability of a vacbed to immobilize you, even down to your fingers. It's simple, you can't move significantly, period. The rubber or latex is not slippery either. It doesn't matter how horny you get thinking about it, you're stuck. If anything goes wrong, you're screwed.

So the only safe way to use a vacbed is with someone monitoring you in situ, visually. Preferably by someone who has experience with such a device and can recognize when the sub has enough.

Jenny.
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Postby leopard99 » 06 Mar 2012, 07:57

When you are in the bed you really can't move your fingers with respect to the latex. You can move (for example) a handby stretching the latex. It's easy to tap on the floor, something I use as a safe signal with my bed. But would you rely on a switch or other mechanism outside the bed which might slip out of position at just the wrong moment?
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Postby Zimon » 06 Mar 2012, 19:11

PS, to clarify. You will have the walkie talkie in your and and your finger already positioned on the alarm button, or even tape it there or something. Then you just need to squeeze the button for the alarm to go off. So there is no need for much movement.

PS2. I have tried a vac bed before, a high quality one with real quality latex and perfect latex thickness. Did not do a SB session with it, as wife and a friend was in the room and making me the captive in it for a while. And I do think that an alarm panic button of some kind should be doable.

When in doubt, C4.... (na, that was Mythbusters.... hehe). When in doubt test it several times before putting it into a SB session!
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Postby leopard99 » 07 Mar 2012, 08:07

If the walkie talkie is in the bed with you and your finger is on the button then it is very likely you will be pressing the button whether you want to or not. If the WT is outside the bed then can you guarantee that it will be in the right place when you need it?

Would you really want to rely on battery powered devices like that for your safety? This is definitely not a fail safe method.

The safest (this is relative, it's risky anyway) method I can think of for vacbed SB is to use a timer as the primary release. Then an ice plug in a tee in the vacuum line as a secondary release. The ice plug needs to be tested for 2 reasons. One is to get an idea of melt time, remember that the pressure drop causes cooling of the air which may make a difference. The other is to ensure that enough air is admitted to allow you to escape. I might just about trust this setup, even then I'm doubtful. For any design with a breathing hole or tube there's a possibility that it might get misaligned during the intial deflation. That's happened to me and while it's usually possible to wriggle and correct it yourself it's been a close call once. Not a problem since I wasn't trying SB.

I would still be very much aware of Kink Engineering's opinions. They make vacbeds. They probably have more experience of them than the rest of us put together.
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Postby bound_jenny » 07 Mar 2012, 13:09

leopard99 wrote:would still be very much aware of Kink Engineering's opinions. They make vacbeds. They probably have more experience of them than the rest of us put together.


They would most likely say that it's not a good idea to use a vacbed in SB.

The only viable safe release method is someone else watching.

Jenny.
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Postby Zimon » 07 Mar 2012, 18:54

As I said, SB in a Vac bed is dangerous and should not be done! A gay guy I know lost his boyfriend this way here in Norway!!!

But if, if at all, anyone is still gonna do a vac bed SB session, then safety safety safety. Plan, plan plan and test test test test.

The Walkie Talkie was more like a potential tip for alarming a person in the room next door. Off course there is other devices that also could do a smililar trick. Reason why I mention WT is that the one I own got the push to talk button, but as well a red alarm button that will give a high sirene. And yes, there should not be much problem pressing a button when in a Vac Bed, and the initial "preassure" created by the vacum should not make you push it accidentally too.

But again. Vac Bed SB is not safe, again not safe!!! And IMHO should not be done even though how tempting it is!
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Postby davisev5225 » 09 Apr 2012, 09:17

Brettdiedrich wrote:Use a vac bed with a neck gasket you will be 10 times safer.

This only eliminates the admittedly most dangerous part of vacbed bondage - the ability to breathe. It doesn't eliminate the myriad of other issues, such as risk of fire, electrical short, excess compression, heat generation inside the bag, etc. Bet you didn't know one of those things could quite easily kill you due to heat exhaustion - the plastic or rubber sheets needed to properly seal you in also prevent your skin from breathing, thereby preventing it from letting off excess body heat.

A vacbed sounds like a fun idea, but I'll never experience one. It is not worth the risk in my opinion.
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Postby Zan » 09 May 2012, 03:41

To counteract the heat exhaustion issue I could fix a fan blowing down at the vac bed to keep me cool. And seein I am quit a tech savvy person I could quit easily build a switch that would wire into my existing home automation system I have that has the flood, carbon monoxide, and fire alarms all hooked into it.
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Postby lj » 09 May 2012, 09:51

Bet you didn't know one of those things could quite easily kill you due to heat exhaustion - the plastic or rubber sheets needed to properly seal you in also prevent your skin from breathing, thereby preventing it from letting off excess body heat.

Brettdiedrich wrote:To counteract the heat exhaustion issue I could fix a fan blowing down at the vac bed to keep me cool. And seein I am quit a tech savvy person I could quit easily build a switch that would wire into my existing home automation system I have that has the flood, carbon monoxide, and fire alarms all hooked into it.

Tech savvy you may be, but lacking in basic physics/physiology !

the body cools itself by sweating. As the water in sweat evaporates, it requires heat (latent heat of vaporisation) which it extracts from the skin, thereby cooling it. If the skin is sealed, evaporation cannot occur. The only (minimal) cooling effect the fan provides is removal of the warmer air immediately in contact with the latex, itself a thermal insulator.

The simple fact is that vacuum bondage is seriously dangerous in the solo context. With a helper standing by, it is an interesting situation, particularly if the helper provides a variety of interesting stimulation :twisted: Please don't try to throw ever more technology at something that people with great experience have said is too dangerous to try alone.
be a switch, double the fun :-)
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Postby Blacky » 10 May 2012, 15:19

The human body delivers an average output power of about 100W when relaxing.
Assuming the body to only consist of water it will take roughly 10 minutes before your body reaches a temperature that is SURELY LETHAL!

For those about to argue that the body doesn't consist of water only: You're right. But that makes things even worse!
There is nothing that needs more energy per temperature increment than water. At least we don't know of anything.


To put it in simple words: Vac-bed selfbondage is absolutely UNSAFE and INSANE!

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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Postby leopard99 » 10 May 2012, 15:49

Blacky wrote:The human body delivers an average output power of about 100W when relaxing.
Assuming the body to only consist of water it will take roughly 10 minutes before your body reaches a temperature that is SURELY LETHAL!


A little knowledge is a very dangerous thing. Yes of course vacbed selfbondage is hazardous but not for that reason.

At a practical level, I've been in a vacbed for half an hour or so, and have not felt in the least bit too hot. Well not in a strict temperature sense anyway. This was with a helper. A latex catsuit with hood, gloves and boots is comparable to a vacbed in terms of coverage. I've worn that for an evening without trouble.

At a theoretical level it's all very well working out the heat input (the 100W resting disspation is near enough OK for this discussion) but you need to look at the heat losses too. These are harder to estimate, but a vacbed is far from a perfect insulator so the heat losses will still be significant. There won't be any heat losses by evaopration of sweat but there will still be conduction and radiation losses. Plus whatever heat is lost through exhaled air.
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Postby davisev5225 » 11 May 2012, 10:21

I'm wondering why this is still a topic of conversation. Someone is going to die from one of these things, and I do NOT want BoundAnna to be responsible for their stupid ideas. :shock:

Latex outfits allow airflow. Even tight ones that you have to stretch to get into will move with your skin because its only the elasticity of the material keeping it in place. Once you add internal vacuum pressure, it becomes a whole different issue. Now the latex is being pressed to your skin by (almost) an entire atmosphere of pressure! There's literally NO room for your skin to breathe, not even the tiniest bit.

Latex is also not a good conductor of heat. There's a reason latex materials are used in situations that require a high heat tolerance. In fact, it insulates so well, you could make oven mitts from it. Just add a small layer of cloth to the outside to prevent the very outer layer from melting or burning, and you're good to go. Even 1/8" of the stuff (~0.4cm) is enough to keep you from burning your hands. At body temperature, you won't even make a dent in it. It takes approximately 30 minutes for a typical article of latex clothing to warm to skin temperature. That's how long it would take for it to BEGIN diffusing heat, and it wouldn't do so very fast at all because of its great insulating properties.

Even a room chilled to refrigerator temperatures will not be enough to prevent the risk of heat exhaustion. It would slow it, sure, but you're still looking at less than an hour for your body to begin to shut down from excess heat. Under "normal" conditions (room temperature), you also have to worry about all the heat the vacuum motor is going to put out, thereby increasing the ambient room temperature.

There's a whole host of reasons why you should NEVER use a vacuum bed in self-bondage, no matter how "smart" or "safe" you think you are. Please listen to the experts here and just don't try it.
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Postby lj » 11 May 2012, 11:51

davisev5225 wrote:I'm wondering why this is still a topic of conversation. Someone is going to die from one of these things, and I do NOT want BoundAnna to be responsible for their stupid ideas. :shock:


the site, in particular Anna, the owner, or the Moderators, are not responsible for anything that is posted here - it is a discussion forum. However, what we do try to do is point out the potential risks where the poster apparently does not see or understand them, based on our own knowledge and experience. Very occasionally, we will delete a post that is so completely stupidly dangerous, and the majority of people will not even know it was ever there! But in general, we prefer to let people see the suggestions, the problems and the risks, and let them make up their own minds. You have to remember that we each have our own "limits" as to what is an acceptable risk.

davisev5225 wrote:There's a whole host of reasons why you should NEVER use a vacuum bed in self-bondage, no matter how "smart" or "safe" you think you are. Please listen to the experts here and just don't try it.


good advice :)
be a switch, double the fun :-)
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Postby Karen304 » 28 Jun 2012, 00:09

If you really don't think thingS could go wrong with a Vacuum Bag Self Bondage here READ THIS!
kinkengineering.com /blog May 29, 2012 RIP MATT

THIS KINK ENGINEERING... MAKERS OF VACUUM BAGS....
MATT WAS ONE OF THEIR DESIGNERS.....
HE KNEW WHAT WAS A SAFE WAY TO USE THE BAG...

HE DIDN'T.......... HE'S DEAD.......... DON'T GET IN A BAG WITHOUT A HELPER!!!
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