Vacuum bed self bondage

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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Postby jjim » 24 Jan 2015, 20:06

Vac beds are definitely a unique experience; though I've never tried the expensive latex ones (US$ 350-500). I don't think you can expect people to avoid them because someone had a fatal accident with one. The best approach is to make them very safe which really is not that difficult nor expensive.

I tried to make a sealed vac bed, and I couldn't do it; there were too many little leaks, and the one-way valve picked up crud from using the vac to clean up the den when it wasn't connected to the bed. Therefore, if the power goes out, the vac stops and the vac bed releases. Or, if the shop vac fails, burns out, whatever, it fails in a safe way.

There's explosive bolts which might be available as surplus from the terminated US Space Shuttle program to release a sealed vac bed, but since I don't have experience with these, I don't recommend them :lol:

Even better, is to make not only vac beds but all SB safer with fail-safe interlocks. Many years ago I took a three day course with OSHA, which is one of the rare positive things to emerge from the government. OSHA means Occupational Safety and Health Administration (their motto: if you think OSHA is a town in Iowa, you're in big trouble). I had to manage a few buildings where physics experiments were being done, and OSHA could shut down anything that wasn't run with safety as first priority.

"Fail-safe" means that if the power goes off, or a wire breaks, or anything refuses to work, the system shuts down; design the system so that the only way it can keep going, is if all the fail-safes are functioning and reporting 'good to go'. Personally I don't think that electronic timers are necessarily safe; someone might program, for instance, thee days instead of three hours, and I don't know if they are immune to picking up glitches. But, you can always put two timers or more in series with the safety system, one digital and the other mechanical. The earliest fail-safe systems included the 'dead man switch', a pedal that a locomotive engineer had to keep holding down while running a train; elevator ('lift') brakes that would immediately engage if the cables broke, slowly lowering it to the ground floor; and train brakes that normally were fully engaged preventing any movement — a pressurized line released the brakes, but if anything came loose anywhere, the pressure would drop and the brakes would engage. Generally, several things had to be kept active and energized, or everything would shut down.

Actually, any sort of SB (rope, cuffs, etc.) can be made fail-safe, or at least more fail-safe, by incorporating a magnetic lock or electromagnetic latching device that must stay energized; if the safety system disables it, the SB is ended. A lot of people like ice as a release method, but if there's a fire, that might make the ice melt faster, but possibly not fast enough. :(

A typical fail-safe system has several safeties in series, like links in a chain; if any one of them goes down, the session is ended, liftoff is aborted, or whatever. Generally it's easiest, safest, and cheapest to do this with a few simple electronic circuits. I'd imagine that this could be sold as a fish tank monitoring system or anything similar that is easily pervertible for SB use. For instance:

--- One safety could be a cheap microphone as an input to an op amp; any sustained loud noise from a fire, smoke, or burglar alarm, motion detector, etc. shuts the safety system down;
--- Someone elsewhere mentioned hypothermia; if the core body temperature sensor (or fish tank water temperature) goes too low, the safety system goes down;
--- Likewise, if that temperature goes too high, the system goes down, an alarm sounds, and the fish is released from the tank so it can open a window and get a cool drink from the fridge. (Wait, ignore the thing about the fish); :D
--- pulse rate monitors have been around for decades. Forget the digital display. an analog output from a monitor can be turned into a stream of pulses, and that can be an input to an op amp integrator. If the integrator output is either too high or too low, the safety system shuts down; and finally,
--- For an emergency release, a microphone near the face goes into a differentiator that senses any rapid and sharp series of noises (e.g. Mf-Mf-Mf-Mf-Mf, or glug-glug-glug-glug, etc.) and then into an integrator circuit that will shut it all down.

Now, regarding the emergency release thing, people have suggested orange paint and urine on ice for a deterrent from using it. Well, I dunno, that sounds like more of an annoyance. Maybe a big annoyance, but there might be something more emotionally edgy that could add a sustained piquancy and drama to the scene. I've never owned and operated one, nor even seen one, but I've heard that there are butt shockers on the market that deliver a range of outputs, even to the point of being unpleasantly punishing and well worth avoiding, and it might take a few memorable minutes to remove. If the emergency release is used, then this thing would kick in.

---

nothing can be made fool-proof because fools are so ingenious. :D
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Postby bound_jenny » 25 Jan 2015, 00:30

jjim wrote:I don't think you can expect people to avoid them because someone had a fatal accident with one.


I don't think one can expect us to stop telling people not to do it solo because people still do it. We don't give up caring that easily.

Jenny.
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Postby ponylady » 25 Jan 2015, 02:38

well, the problem is good ole mr. murphy is still
smiling in his grave.

and invent a foolsproof system and only fools will want to use it.
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Postby Sir Cumference » 25 Jan 2015, 08:56

ponylady wrote:well, the problem is good ole mr. murphy is still
smiling in his grave.

and invent a foolsproof system and only fools will want to use it.



And one of those, will be a new and improved fool!


Yes, systems should "fail safe" and preferably "fail gracefully".

Unfortunately, humans are fragile (in some cases, in other cases they are surprisingly tough and hard to kill).
The moment we loose conscience, especially if it is caused by loss of respiration or circulation, we are very much in trouble.

And "a dead man switch is a little late".....


A button that must be kept pressed down to supply power to the vacuum is a logical solution. Loose conscience, and you'll release the button, right?
..... Or maybe the weight of the atmosphere on top of the rubber sheet will press on your limp hand, or you will be having cramps for long enough to keep the oxygen level low enough to have a brain damage?


In my experience, the more complicated you make the system, the less likely it is to perform the way you intended it to.


We should have fun, not make the headlines.
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Postby bound_jenny » 25 Jan 2015, 10:19

Sir Cumference wrote:"a dead man switch is a little late"

We should have fun, not make the headlines.


A wise philosopher you are, my perverted friend! :love:

Sir Cumference wrote:he more complicated you make the system, the less likely it is to perform the way you intended it to.


A well-respected engineer said it a bit differently: the more complicated the plumbing, the easier it is to clog the drain.

Jenny.
Helplessness is a doorway to the innermost reaches of the soul.
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Postby stapack » 20 Jul 2015, 05:04

"You'll shoot your eye out!" That's what this thread sounds like. I've used vacbeds solo off and on for many years without issue. Make sure your neck gasket fits properly. Use a backup timer. Modern vacuum cleaners have temperature fuses.

Like most things, it's not idiot-proof. So, are you an idiot?
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Postby bound_jenny » 20 Jul 2015, 09:09

stapack wrote:Like most things, it's not idiot-proof. So, are you an idiot?


I agree with the first part of your statement. I have a serious issue with the second part. For someone who has barely gotten out of the mod queue approval process, you sure are quick to insult other members of this board to argue your position. That's ad hominem.

The problem is not idiocy, it's hormones, and in some cases, overconfidence:

stapack wrote:I've used vacbeds solo off and on for many years without issue.


All it takes is a small detail and you're dead. Details that can be missed by hormone-induced overexcitement, or by overconfidence.

So I hope that you hold your insults in check. Remember that ad hominem means that you can't argue your position with valid facts to back you up. That means you don't win.

And remember that the Lady holding the blunt end of the whip always wins. :whip:

Jenny.
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Postby davisev5225 » 27 Jul 2015, 06:05

stapack wrote:Like most things, it's not idiot-proof. So, are you an idiot?

The guy who designed the vac-bed, and all its "safety features", died in one when he played solo. Let that sink in.

NEVER PLAY WITH A VAC-BED SOLO! This cannot be stressed enough.
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Re: Vacuum bed self bondage

Postby Kirt_II » 12 Oct 2016, 02:15

I likely will never recommend solo play in a vacbed not even with any series of timers/ releases, safety measures, and wisdom.

With comprehensive and competent use, I do recommend solo use of a vactower (a vaccube you stand up in) to those whom must. Why? a vacbed you are prone to get stuck in an uncomfortable position. If you do manage to find a comfortable position, it will become uncomfortable in 20 minutes, even with padding or a bed.

What are advantages of a vactower?

1. A vacbed will suddenly lock you in place when vacuum turns on whereas a vactower takes two minutes to evacuate that large volume of air. You see and feel the latex closing in on you from every dimension until eventually you are forced into position. Admitedlly, the last ten seconds prior to being sealed, your space is very limited. The last five seconds you may think it already has a tight hold of you, but it's the last two seconds and down to zero that you realize "oh wow, that is super tight and I am stuck!" As another illustration, if you put your arms out away from your body and half-way between your body and the two vertical rear pvc pipes, you can feel the latex being pushing against each other. Since the vacuum hasn't sealed you yet, you can slip your arms into and out of either the front or rear nook. As the latex closes in to your body, you can feel the latex pulling upwards against your feet and downwards at the top toward your head (if you're tall like me). This is where you get trapped pretty quickly. The latex is now reaching in a curved manner from every dimension for your torso, buttocks, and chest, and your arms and legs are already stuck. A second later, you feel your body is surrounded. And then the last 2.5 seconds, you feel the compression go from light to tight. (got carried away with description, sorry).

2. A vactower is very easy to get in comfortable position. You can be completely held up (suspended in mid-air) by the latex envelope which is very comfortable compared to a vacbed with the feeling of the floor or padding under you. Just don't tie yourself up or bend yourself into odd position in either a vactower or vacbed. You can't adjust at all. Wherever you were when the vacuum took place, there you will be until the vacuum fails.

3. A vactower feels like a high while a vacbed feels like a burden. Yes some like that - but for psychological reasons, if a timer doesn't go off as planned, it is much better feeling being stuck floating in mid-air opposed to pinned against the ground. To reiterate, if you do it right, even the soles of feet will be suspended off the ground. Every square inch of your body is suspended in mid-air, wrapped up by latex. I will submit however that even with a vactower suspended in mid-air, you can feel very uncomfortable. It's not that you are actually in an uncomfortable place, but that if you have the feeling that you seriously want out, there is absolutely no physical way to relieve the heavy and burdensome feeling of compression. It's not that the compression is that tight, but more that it is relentless. Every move you make reminds you of how incredibly stuck you are, and how you are at the mercy of the latex prison. The latex begins to feel thick like you are in sinking sand even though it's a mere 0.35 mm between you and freedom (only the thickness of a t-shirt)! Yes, that is an incredibly great and euphoric feeling when you desire it, but if you really really want out, you probably will feel just as incredibly hopeless. While the reality of your helplessness is as real as the seat you're sitting in, the part that gets you is the psychological bit. You were fine getting in and allowing it to trap you.. why now does it feel like a foe rather than friend anymore? Answer: Your psychological state. Physically you will be perfectly fine floating in the latex sheets. The timer will go off whether first (digital), second (analog), or third (ice plug {i.e., another analog timer btw}). So even when you get that feeling of really wanting out, you can reassure yourself that no matter what the ice plug will melt in time. You can even run the pvc vacuum pipes out and in your view so you can see the ice dripping water as it slowly melts. But I guess that could also be like watching grass grow, lol. I like to keep a tv and clock in the room and in view so I can distract myself if I do lose psychological control. I stand by this still being physically safe because handcuffs in a block of ice is the same psychological scenario. Yes, it doesn't give you that feeling of having been swallowed by latex, but it can be just as uncomfortable in other ways.

As an added safety feature, I put the vacuum and timers in another room and run pvc piping through the wall and right to the vactower. I use a head facing out or head completely out design (properly fitted). Two timers. And a three-way pvc joint on way to vacuum with an {ice plug (basically a third timer)}.

With this design, you will not be able to escape for the period of time set on timers, but otherwise there are no dangers. The ice will melt and release you if for some reason both timers fail.

I have become trapped in vactowers longer than I wanted, but it's just a matter of time to be released. Sometimes I do get very impatient and even have panicked and thrown a fit, but that changes nothing.. I still just have to wait. I know somebody is going to say what if you tipped it over and hit your head on something or landed face down with frame and latex square to the ground creating a dome in which you're stuck under and will eventually suffocate? First of all, I make sure any direction I fall would not hurt me. Secondly, I put blankets and pillows on floor so it will pad my fall and prevent the frame from being perfectly square to the ground (allowing air to come in and out easily). And thirdly, I usually position the vactower about 5 feet from the wall behind it and tip it backwards while vacuum sealed. My feet come off the ground and the entire vactower falls against the wall kinda hard but the latex keeps you pinned in place only allowing you to move as far as the latex will stretch, and immediately then bounces you back and forth eventually into place. From that position, you are essentially reclined back at 35 degree angle. No amount of squirming, bouncing, pushing, pulling, or rocking will dislodge it's placement, because I use a custom floor stop (3/4" rail) to keep it from going any further/ sliding down.

It's quite the solo experience, and safe as handcuffs or rope, but still better and even much more safe with a partner.
Would you ever guess that a Libertarian as myself could be into such bondage? #irony
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