Australian man ARRESTED for having bdsm fettish!!??

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harryS
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Australian man ARRESTED for having bdsm fettish!!??

Post by harryS »

Here's the article I'm talking about
http://www.bordermail.com.au/story/4355 ... een/?cs=11


As far as I can tell, his crimes were
Having bdsm fettish
Telling a 15 year old his very simplistic definition of rape
Owning anime drawings
Owning handcuffs and legcuffs
And looking a bit creepy.

What the fuck!? Now everyone in his town is treating him like a rapist and a pedeophile even though no rape has been committed.
Also I wasn't aware that owning handcuffs was illegal :S

Am I missing something here????
lj
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Re: Australian man ARRESTED for having bdsm fettish!!??

Post by lj »

[*]"Am I missing something here ???"[/i]

YES!

I'm actually a little concerned that the OP can't understand what happened, though bear in mind newspapers exist to sell newspapers and rarely give a full picture of events, often slanting them to enrage or otherwise make readers take polarised judgements and get emotionally involved so they keep reading - (and buying)

Taking it at face-value, on three occasions a middle-aged man talks about a threatening event (rape) with a girl he wrongly assumes is 21. We can infer that his conversation was inappropriate, whatever the age of the girl, because you wouldn't discuss rape without some knowledge of the person you are talking to - you don't just strike up a conversation about rape, real or role-play. The girl, being an employee, could not easily avoid his attention, and he persisted in trying to talk to her, telling her he would return to continue the conversation, despite her being uncomfortable about it, hence the "stalking" charge.

He had a collection of images that showed sexual abuse of children (in the UK 16 and over is a legal age for sexual relations, below that age it is illegal - and there are laws concerning the type of sexual activity, BDSM in the UK is effectively illegal though fortunately not policed in most cases) and it makes no difference if the images are cartoons, it is the content that matters. They show a strong interest in sexual abuse of children, which is paedophilia, even if not enacted by the man (again, I can only speak of UK law)

In some countries, possession of handcuffs is indeed illegal - they are considered, in the hands of all except the police and authorised people, a weapon - incapacitate someone with handcuffs and you can assault them without their being able to defend themselves.

Then the guy makes a somewhat weird comment about "rails" and despite being told by the girl that she is 15, still indicates he will return to continue the discussion of rape and hopes she can work out what he will do with the "rails".

He wasn't arrested for being kinky, he was arrested because he broke the law regarding handcuffs, stalked a child despite knowing her age, and involved her in discussions about rape and BDSM that she didn't want.

and you wonder "what the f**k" ? !
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Jadit
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Re: Australian man ARRESTED for having bdsm fettish!!??

Post by Jadit »

lj wrote:it makes no difference if the images are cartoons, it is the content that matters. They show a strong interest in sexual abuse of children, which is paedophilia, even if not enacted by the man (again, I can only speak of UK law)
Not commenting on the news here, but anime/manga or even some hentai have no connection whatsoever with paedophilia. Having interest to them in drawn form doesn't have to have anything to do with wanting such things in real life. Anyone claiming otherwise is simply ignorant. No offence to you, i guess you just referred to the law. It's them to blame anyway.
harryS
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Re: Australian man ARRESTED for having bdsm fettish!!??

Post by harryS »

The part I was missing is that he stalked someone. pretty vital piece of info but somehow I missed it.

My biggest question now is: When it comes to erotic drawings of fictional characters, who decides that characters age?
One person may look at it and say "yeah she looks over 21" and another person could look at it and say "she looks 12 to me"

Also, am I wrong in saying "No rape has occured"?
lj wrote:im actually a little concerned that the OP can't understand what happened
Oh please. Settle down
BornThisWay
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Re: Australian man ARRESTED for having bdsm fettish!!??

Post by BornThisWay »

15 is a bit young, I would not want a man this old trying to hook up with my daughter if she was only 15.
Certain things in life are to be held sacred, the innocence of a child is one of those things. I'm glad they stopped him.
lj
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Re: Australian man ARRESTED for having bdsm fettish!!??

Post by lj »

harryS wrote:The part I was missing is that he stalked someone. pretty vital piece of info but somehow I missed it.

My biggest question now is: When it comes to erotic drawings of fictional characters, who decides that characters age?
One person may look at it and say "yeah she looks over 21" and another person could look at it and say "she looks 12 to me"

Also, am I wrong in saying "No rape has occured"?
lj wrote:im actually a little concerned that the OP can't understand what happened
Oh please. Settle down
you asked what you were missing, I told you. Don't patronise me.

Sadly the general public do not accept "she looks 21" IF another person thinks she looks 12 - it is an excuse attempting to justify under-age sex - in English law, the term "reasonable" is often used. For example "would a reasonable person judge this girl to be 12 ?" If the answer is "yes" then the law will proceed to make judgement on that basis ie under-age sex. It does, of course, get much more difficult if the girl is 15 trying very hard to look 18 (my wife recalls doing this so she could get cheap cinema seats and then go to a pub afterwards !)

The subject of rape is extremely emotive, again often leading to incorrect assumptions. "She was asking for it" = "wearing a short skirt", "she's out late at night" = "she's asking for it". For a 56-year old man to introduce the subject of rape to a young (whatever age) girl - it would inevitably be, at the very least, disturbing, and with the persistence this guy showed, very frightening. The guy wasn't charged with anything to do with rape, but the general public reacted, as they often do, by jumping to conclusions, in this case that he had rape on his mind. That he had very many anime depicting rape and abuse reinforces that view, whether or not it is correct.

The public, and particularly when the tabloid press get involved, are very quick to see any form of sexuality except the "missionary position with the lights out" as depraved and disgusting. In the UK recently, press got hold of the story that a local rope group were holding regular meetings in a village hall -invitations were required, no publicity except in the kink world was used, mostly by recommendation, they let nobody else in, kept the blinds down, there was no nudity or any form of sexual activity and cleared up afterwards - the hall management thought they were excellent users of the hall. Until they found out what was going on via the press. End of rope group. Then there was the venue for private play parties They met on a Saturday night, the parties were strictly by invitation and they kept all their activities behind closed doors of a private house. "public outcry" whipped up by the press, closed down because it was near a school. And then there was the Paediatrician mobbed, hounded and scared by a group of idiots who didn't know the difference between a pervert and a medical specialist.

This is why we have to be very careful how we behave, and how we discuss our kinks - the vast majority would simply not understand why I, for example, enjoy being cropped and whipped, and equally enjoy using the crop and whip on someone else - the notion of consent for these things is lost on them. In fact, under English law, thanks to the notorious "Spanner" case (gay BDSM) you cannot consent to anything leaving marks (=bruises, cuts etc) because this constitutes "actual bodily harm" and "assault" and you cannot use consent as a defence against a charge of assault.

As to Jadit's point, yes, of course not all anime are anything to do with sex, but the guy in question had a majority of examples that were portrayals of sexual abuse, so it supports the case against him.
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tiemeupalso
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Re: Australian man ARRESTED for having bdsm fettish!!??

Post by tiemeupalso »

another case of people thinking they are free when in truth the government has a "thought police"
they have no idea why he picked her to talk to.
and there were so many of these people trying to tell the US how to run their politics and what is good for us.
no thank you.
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Re: Australian man ARRESTED for having bdsm fettish!!??

Post by mymy42 »

One note on anime pictures and content... This is very difficult topic!

In a general way, fictionnal characters age is quite hard to qualify, but this is especially true with anime content. Let's be honest, most of the time these anime character look very young. It will be hard to argument against justice if they catch and sue someone for these.

I've been a doll forum. Full size realistic dolls are know quite popular, and when I mean realistics, it's quite incredible how realistic they are. Just by watching a few good pictures if these high-end beauties makes you want one. Anyway, back to the topic: there are many doll that are between 100 and 160cm, which may have a very young head and a small breast and which could be confused with children. For such reason, the admins there have forbidden putting any picture of such doll, to avoid any issue.

My point is that, it's most of the time doable to judge one's age based on a picture. But for fictionnal character, it's hard and in many place and when such pictures involve sexual content (even a posing naked character) it's illegal. Be warned and avoid storing those on your computer...
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Re: Australian man ARRESTED for having bdsm fettish!!??

Post by bound_jenny »

OK, I think there's some room for cooling down the tone here. I sense some heat.

If one takes the OP's thread title "Australian man ARRESTED for having BDSM fetish!!??" at face value, it is in error. He was basically arrested for stalking and sexually harassing a minor (strictly speaking from a legal standpoint, excluding any emotional reactions). That's not very smart. The rest is most likely amplification and hyperbole on the part of the media. Just to add some juicy details to what would amount to just another creepy sex offender story :arrow: more juice = more audience/readership. At last count, looking creepy is not a crime. Having a fetish isn't one either.
lj wrote:despite being told by the girl that she is 15, still indicates he will return to continue the discussion
That's why he was arrested, not for having a fetish. He can no longer plead ignorance.

Which brings us to the anime/manga/hentai question. The problem here is ambiguity. Yes, it's hard to determine the age of a character from a drawing. That's the problem. The line is all at once fine, blurry and mobile. That's why many sites (like forums) don't allow such content to be posted. You'll get nine people who will think nothing of it, but #10 will be THE pain in the ass that will have one single mission: make your life totally miserable. They will beat you over the head with lawyers until you crumple under the burden. They are just as persistent and annoying as protesters in front of the Trump building (no politics inferred, just a comparison of persistence and annoyance).

So basically it's a question of what is the law in any given jurisdiction. Some places are stricter than others. Some are more lenient. Plainly, it's not what one feels or how much one rants and jumps up and down in rage or how much private property is burned down that determines the outcome of a legal issue, it's the law. Facts. Evidence.

So let's relax, chill out, and get back to the regularly scheduled insanity that goes on in here. :mrgreen:

Jenny.
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davisev5225
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Re: Australian man ARRESTED for having bdsm fettish!!??

Post by davisev5225 »

bound_jenny wrote:Which brings us to the anime/manga/hentai question. The problem here is ambiguity. Yes, it's hard to determine the age of a character from a drawing. That's the problem. The line is all at once fine, blurry and mobile. That's why many sites (like forums) don't allow such content to be posted. You'll get nine people who will think nothing of it, but #10 will be THE pain in the ass that will have one single mission: make your life totally miserable. They will beat you over the head with lawyers until you crumple under the burden. They are just as persistent and annoying as protesters in front of the Trump building (no politics inferred, just a comparison of persistence and annoyance).
Yep. One community I frequent has the following rule, which I find to be completely appropriate:
As we are typically associated as being an adult pornographic community, we will not allow any sort of nudity or sexual content involving characters that could be seen as depicting somebody as underage. This includes any character that could be seen as loli, shota, child, or underage teen, regardless of it's position as a virtual character or the intent to be passed off as a mystical race who only looks young; the only thing that matters in this respect is what the character appears to be at a glance.
Basically, if you cannot reasonably assume that the drawing in question depicts someone who is above the age of consent for your jurisdiction without any prior knowledge of any "lore" or other story to hand-wave away any discrepancies in appearance, it's most likely illegal. Simple, easy, no guess-work involved.
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