trappist 1

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ponylady
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trappist 1

Post by ponylady »

wow,

ain't that amazing news about exoplanets in our cosmic backyard?

finding 3 earthlike planets in the habitable zone with orbits that are comparable to what until now have been only hot jupiters is like winning powerball thrice in a row.

putting it into context, the possibility of expanding our cosmic knowledge is mindboggling.

500 years ago galilei discovered the 4 major moons of jupiter.

200 years ago schiaparelli found "canali" on mars *until googs translator happened this is the most famous example of a bad translation shaping history*

1962 mariner 2 *or 4* provided proof that there is no tropical jungle with dinosaurs on venus, but a 400°, 80 bar wasteland on our closest neighbour.

1969 we landed on the moon.
1976 the vikings landed on mars.
1977 the voyagers were launched.
1995 galileo orbits jupiter * the same year the 1st exoplanet was discovered.*
2004 cassini reaches saturn orbit
2015 new horizons reaches the kuiper-belt & discovers a heart.

i watched the nasa paneldiscussion about trappist 1 and it is really stunning, that we will be able to analyze the existence & content of exoplanets atmospheres once james webb spacetelescope is in orbit.

this is really exciting.

ooh, and i really dig sara seager's outfit.
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Re: trappist 1

Post by bound_jenny »

ponylady wrote:mariner 2 *or 4*
It was Mariner 2 that flew by Venus and found a hellhole instead of a steamy, dinosaur-filled primitive jungle world. Mariner 4 flew by Mars and killed off once and for all Schiaparelli's "canals". Not that Giovanni would have been disappointed, he meant "channels", not "canals". But Percival Lowell would have been really pissed. He had invested really heavily in the canals, and Martians. Not to mention that any travelers to Barsoom would have just found a big pile of rusty kitty litter.
ponylady wrote:1977 the voyagers were launched
And they hoped really really hard that they'd last five years... Now, forty years later, they're on the doorstep of the solar system, just dipping their magnetometer toes in the interstellar medium (which really is an extra-large :wink: ).
ponylady wrote:2015 new horizons reaches the kuiper-belt & discovers a heart
Following the tradition of all previous planetary probes, New Horizons flipped our preconceived notions upside down and turned Pluto and its *five* moons from a cold, boring place to someplace fascinating and dynamic. Well, about as dynamic as you can get at just a couple of dozen degrees above absolute zero... Brrr... (BTW, my name is on the CD placed inside the probe :hi: ).

Now, just 40 light-years away, a small red ember of a sun hosts no less than seven Earth-sized planets, three of which are in the habitable zone and *potentially* able to host life. All this done with the Spitzer telescope... Let's cross our fingers that the much larger and more sensitive Webb telescope will deploy without a hitch and let us see even more wonders in the sky. Including the Trappist Seven.

Just think of it, what we're seeing now with TRAPPIST-1's planetary system, that light left the system right around the time the Voyager probes were launched.

More than that, since 1995, the year of the first exoplanet discovery, the catalog of planets found outside our solar system has swelled to number in the thousands, with thousands more candidates waiting to be double-checked.

And we keep discovering more, and increasing our knowledge. Just like with Mariner 2, and Mariner 4, the Voyagers, New Horizons, and others, each discovery makes us change our vision of the Universe.

Here's to upsetting our preconceived notions! 8)

Jenny.
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Re: trappist 1

Post by JIMDINI »

:love:
bound_jenny wrote:And we keep discovering more, and increasing our knowledge. Just like with Mariner 2, and Mariner 4, the Voyagers, New Horizons, and others, each discovery makes us change our vision of the Universe.

Here's to upsetting our preconceived notions!

Jenny.
And don't forget in forty four years the Vulcans will arrive! :!:
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Re: trappist 1

Post by tiemeupalso »

these scientist lost all credibility with me when they declared Pluto a non-planet.
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Re: trappist 1

Post by Natale »

Pluto is still a planet- it's just that it's been reclassified as a dwarf planet.

As for the Vulcans or anyone else for that matter, no sign of them at Trappist 1 (yet). The SETI Institute has already aimed the Allen Telescope Array at the red dwarf star to search the radio spectrum between 1 and 10 GHz. No signals were found in that frequency range.

So IF anyone is there, either they're using different frequencies, their signals are too weak for us to detect at present, or they haven't yet discovered radio technology. Or perhaps they have, and they've just begun transmissions but it will be 40 years before we can receive them.

Of course none of this rules out the possibility of some things crawling or slithering around on one of those planets. :shock:
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Re: trappist 1

Post by JIMDINI »

Natale wrote:o IF anyone is there, either they're using different frequencies, their signals are too weak for us to detect at present, or they haven't yet discovered radio technology. Or perhaps they have, and they've just begun transmissions but it will be 40 years before we can receive them.
Awe c'mon. if you were watching us from out there, What with ISIS, Trump, Brexit, etc. :facepalm: You would avoid contact too! :rofl:
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Re: trappist 1

Post by bound_jenny »

Natale wrote:As for the Vulcans or anyone else for that matter, no sign of them at Trappist 1
IIRC, Vulcan is at 40 Eridani. Just follow the guys with the pointy ears.

The problem with radio signals, i.e. the ones usually associated with a technological civilization, is that they're not pointed at us. Most communications here on Earth are point-to-point. Little is radiated upward because antennas are designed to be most effective horizontally, where the customers are. The rest is incidental, meaning it's more leakage than anything else. Apply the inverse square law from 40 light-years and the chances of detecting anything are about as good as my phone receiving a cell signal from the 5th basement level at the hospital (where the radiotherapy machines are). To be detectable and discernable as an artificial radio signal with intelligent content, it would need serious power pointed right at us. And then some.

As for anyone losing credibility as a scientist by demoting Pluto, that was never the case. They looked silly - just like anyone else, they have their moments. But by demoting Pluto to a dwarf planet, they also promoted a few large asteroids from minor planet to dwarf planet status, like Ceres. But I would like to see any asteroid, current or promoted, with no less than five moons. Pluto is still a planet for me too, I just don't make a big deal out of the demotion thing.

Think of this - two of Jupiter's moons are as big or bigger than Mercury. Same goes for Saturn's moon Titan. If these big bruisers were in orbit around the sun, they would be bona fide planets. They're just hanging with the wrong crowd.

In any case, the aliens - Vulcans, Andorians, or Tribbles for that matter, couldn't care less about our trivial affairs like Brexit and such. They're too busy binge-watching old Trek episodes on a pirated satellite signal... :rofl:
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Re: trappist 1

Post by Natale »

JIMDINI wrote: Awe c'mon. if you were watching us from out there, What with ISIS, Trump, Brexit, etc. :facepalm: You would avoid contact too! :rofl:
Jenny has a point- horizontal and omnidirectional radio waves may just be too weak to receive, unless it's a powerful beam aimed directly at us. That is, IF they wanted contact- for all we know Earth is on a watch list. It may be forbidden to interfere with or even contact those dangerous human creatures. :!: :mrgreen:
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Re: trappist 1

Post by ponylady »

...and than there is the peculiar thing about a red dwarfs typical developement.

in the early stages of their existence they have a lot of flare & coronal activity.

what we are seeing now is trappist 1 in the stage where the star has settled into a "quiet routine".

while life is possible, the question is: has any atmosphere been "washed away" by heavy solarwinds or did extensive UV-radiation sterilize the planet ?

red dwarfs have a 10-100 times larger longevity than our sun, but the right circumstances to support live start later in their existance.

so an advanced civilisation there right now is unlikely, unless it would have developed very fast.

anyway, they basically had to "bend" spitzer's capabilities to expand on the 1st earthbound discovery of 2 planets, so i'm really looking forward to what james webb will be able to uncover, starting next year, as his schedule has already been revised.
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Re: trappist 1

Post by RADER123 »

Just look up at the night sky and think just how far away all those
little points of light are, and how big they actually are.
It boggles the mind.
We think and see everything in simple 3 dimension setting.
In space, there is four dimension, Time being the last one.
Now back in High School Physic's class, time was computed for
all "Vectors" instead of the word "Speed"
I can see that we are not the only pebble on the beach.
The almighty had enough sense not to put us close together.
After all, we on the same planet have trouble getting along.
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Re: trappist 1

Post by tiemeupalso »

anyone that has been in the desert and looked up at the sky and seen millions of stars,that doesnt believe there is other life out there,has an ego to big to be on one planet.
we are not alone.
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Re: trappist 1

Post by bound_jenny »

tiemeupalso wrote:anyone that has been in the desert and looked up at the sky and seen millions of stars,that doesnt believe there is other life out there,has an ego to big to be on one planet.
we are not alone.
That's basically what I think. Considering that there are hundreds of billions of stars in our galaxy, and that there are hundreds of billions of galaxies in the observable universe, it would be the height of hubris to think that we're the one and only crowning jewel of intelligence among all that. Not to mention that Carl Sagan would be proud of my repeated use of the word "billions"..,. :lol:

I wasn't in the desert. I was out camping with my folks, up north in the Laurentians. I stepped out to do my business and I looked up... Far away from the bright city lights, out in the quiet of the Laurentian woods, I was flabbergasted at the sheer number of visible stars, and the irregular fog of the Milky Way cutting across the sky. Imagine a teenage girl in pajamas standing in a clearing in the forest in the middle of the night, looking up in awe.

The only thing missing was the bright white light snapping suddenly on from above, from a silently hovering craft... (cue X-Files music) :shock: :rofl: \

After a few minutes of admiring the celestial spectacle, I went back in the tent and went to sleep, with that beautiful sight etched into my find forever.

Jenny.
Helplessness is a doorway to the innermost reaches of the soul.
If my corset isn't tight, it just isn't right!
Kink is the spice of life!
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Re: trappist 1

Post by Natale »

Don't forget the famous Drake equation. It's not perfect as some of the variables are unknown, but you can estimate the possible number of communicative civilizations. This is only one, but there are numerous Drake Equation calculators online; choose some variables and see how many civilizations MIGHT be out there:

http://www.classbrain.com/artmovies/pub ... e_50.shtml

:shock:
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Re: trappist 1

Post by Sergio »

This is reminiscent of Monty Python's Galaxy Song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buqtdpuZxvk

"...So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth;
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth!"
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