Electric Release

Ideas and instructions how you can make your own bondage toys.
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Blacky
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Re: Electric Release

Post by Blacky »

Due to possible electrolysis it is not a good idea to run DC-current through your body!

If I were to do it I'd stick to either
a)
a NE555 / cap / resistor + MOSFET + relay => The main problem here is to achieve the desired randomisation of the release time while still having control over the maximum runtime, especially if powered by a plug-in AC-DC converter.

or (IMHO better)

b)
an Arduino or comparable microprocessor + MOSFET + relay => The only problem I see with this is its price. Randomisation of running-times is a single line of code, plus, if seeded by e.g. an ADC value (e.g. radio-signal) absolutely unpredictable.
Still, with a simple additional line of code, you have absolute control over maximum durations.
Another plus is, that the µC can control several further toys while keeping you bound. :twisted:


Just my 2ct,

regards,
Blacky
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Re: Electric Release

Post by slkdyk »

Polygraphs (lie detectors) use it all the time. It is the way they detect you sweating when nervous under stress.
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Re: Electric Release

Post by Blacky »

slkdyk wrote:Polygraphs (lie detectors) use it all the time. It is the way they detect you sweating when nervous under stress.
True. I didn't say it's impossible. I still say it's potentially dangerous if you don't precisely know what you do. This refers especially to parameters like voltage, resulting current, current limitation and so on.
There are quite a few reasons why polygraphs are expensive and precision is just one of them.

EDIT:
What I actually forgot to mention: Resistance-measuring of electrlytic solutions is actually done using AC only! This is done BECAUSE you don't want to have electrolysis processes occur whilst measuring. :wink:
Last edited by Blacky on 16 Jul 2015, 13:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Riddle
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Re: Electric Release

Post by Riddle »

slkdyk wrote:Polygraphs (lie detectors) use it all the time. It is the way they detect you sweating when nervous under stress.
I am not familiar with lie detectors, but am familiar with guidelines for running current through people in both industrial and medical settings. One does not simply setup a circuit with an extremely high RC constant. In industrial settings, all possible electrical shock is minimized to the greatest degree possible. In medical settings, running current through people is routine with very specific equipment specially designed for the purpose. Rigorous testing is done before being approved for use.

A circuit with a high RC constant must have a relatively large capacitor. This runs against safe medical practice. Using a polygraph (safe medical type device) as an example of using current to detect sweating is not relevant. It does not have a high RC constant; it must be sensitive to immediate changes. It is also a different circuit design for a completely different purpose (measuring skin resistance).

Blacky pointed out that running DC current through the body is not recommended. This is fact. Your suggestion violates it. This leaves one available conclusion for me: your idea as proposed is not recommended. Polygraphs operate in a manner not known to us; we cannot comment about them. Your proposal is known.

It is possible to use a very small AC current to measure skin resistance safely over longer durations. However, this will not directly drive a RC type timer.To use skin resistance to vary the time, some sort of computer or microcontroller would be required to translate the resistance into a bondage time or control the behavior of the timer. At this point, many other methods could be used which do not require current through the body.


In conclusion, the easiest and safest way to introduce random behavior into the release is a microcontroller. Arduinos work well as Blacky suggested.
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Re: Electric Release

Post by lj »

Just to clarify a few techie points...

A large value capacitor can behave much the same as a battery, "super-capacitors" are used in exactly this way - they have incredibly small self-discharge current specifications, and can store a high level of charge, but are designed to release the charge slowly, and anyway are fitted into circuits that themselves have a small current requirement (watches that use an internal intermittent "self-wind" to charge the capacitor which then keeps the watch running continuously)

However, you can charge a large value standard electrolytic capacitor and get one hell of a high current from it - hundreds of amps for a few milliseconds, so this represents a major danger as a source of ignition. If the capacitor was charged to a high voltage, it would then become lethal, depending upon the actual voltage and the current path through the body.

Remember you need volts to drive the current through a resistance. A 12-volt car battery is only a danger if it falls on your head, or if you apply a short-circuit and explode the battery - you would have to do some really silly stuff with wires and needles to actually kill yourself. And 10,000 volts would give you a small spark and a tingle if you got it from stroking the cat on a dry day but kill you instantly if it came from a power line.

So, using the body as a trigger is fine provided the voltage you apply is very low, and the possible current flow is also very low - if you have a digital voltmeter, set it to measure resistance and grab the probes one in each hand. You will measure your body resistance between the hands by passing a very small current derived from a battery in the meter. Still alive ? Yup, because the battery is probably 1-3 volts and the current is limited by your body resistance and internal resistance in the meter, down to a few microamps. Completely safe, even if it is DC.

Electrocardiographs, electro-encephalographs and polygraphs all work the same way, measuring tiny currents either generated by the body or as a result of a supplied voltage. You need what is termed a high-impedance amplifier to convert these miniscule currents into something you can measure and display - not something for the novice!

A simple RC circuit will only work for a very short time, as a relay takes quite a lot of current to operate, you need to get into the realms of electronics to have any hope of making a useful time-delay. The Arduino route seems fairly easy, if you are prepared to pay the money and learn to code. 555 timers have been around for many years, but are difficult to make "random", though you could use body resistance as part of the timing circuit, but again, only for periods of a few tens of seconds.

You could make a release based on urination ! A pair of electrodes in a suitable container, a low current relay and a battery, with the relay operating to release a key when you pee on the electrodes. Not sure how easy or effective it would be, but as the current is passing between the electrodes, as long as you aren't connected to either by some other route, you won't get a shock of any kind. Use a battery to power the electromagnet holding the key so it will guarantee to release, and remember the remanent (residual) magnetism and put a piece of card between key and magnet core.
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Re: Electric Release

Post by slkdyk »

My original comment was based on 5v TTL logic and varying the time of a 555 to reset another 555 before it timed out. When the second 555 timed out, it would then provide an output to another circuit that would open a relay. This could also be done with a arduino and drivers but still use the R/C to create the variable for the timer and cause release. Think of holding the probes of a VOM on the 20meg ohm scale.

Any ideas on alternate ways of sensing resistance or capacitance to vary the R/C??

I hope no one is considering using 120v from the wall for projects like this.

sd
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Re: Electric Release

Post by Dark_Lizerd »

How about a temperature probe?
As the room temperature changes, so does the resistance...
Or a humidity detector?
A pan of water siting in the sun, have probes at a set level...
When the water evaporates enough to expose the probes,
the power turns off...
A warm day would be quicker...
A cloudy day could take longer...
A passing thirsty animal would shorten the time...
And if it rains, you get time added...
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Re: Electric Release

Post by Riddle »

slkdyk wrote:My original comment was based on 5v TTL logic and varying the time of a 555 to reset another 555 before it timed out. When the second 555 timed out, it would then provide an output to another circuit that would open a relay. This could also be done with a arduino and drivers but still use the R/C to create the variable for the timer and cause release. Think of holding the probes of a VOM on the 20meg ohm scale.

Any ideas on alternate ways of sensing resistance or capacitance to vary the R/C??

I hope no one is considering using 120v from the wall for projects like this.

sd
This does clarify your design plan. As LJ posted, it is very unlikely to kill you you instantly, so it is not completely unsafe. However, unlike a VOM measuring up to 20M Ohm, the design does not have a current limiter. It is not the same as holding the probes designed to protect sensitive electronics. Also, 555 timers are not true 5v TTL logic. Mine are rated for up to like 18V. Those devices go fairly high for a "low voltage" device. Strict 5V devices do not concern me nearly as much.

I like your idea of sensing the capacitance instead. This could be done with a capacitive touch sensor or using a circuit like a 555 to sense the changes in capacitance. Some circuits sense the presence of a body nearby and can gauge proximity and size. Googling capacitive proximity sensor or capacitive touch sensor will provide ideas on how to do this. Now, how to use this in a timer may take some a little extra work, but I believe the results would be awesome. I would enjoy following a thread on this topic.
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Re: Electric Release

Post by slkdyk »

Hmmmm... Capacitance sensor or proximity sensor.... That works too... Use these sensors to count or set timers to obtain release. Sounds like a fun project... Count me in if this continues.

sd
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Re: Electric Release

Post by Zaphod »

Simple (perhaps too) proximity sensor is displayed, for example, in this link. I'm not saying it's perfect structure, but it can serve as a starting point for further consideration and development.

http://danyk.cz/detpoh_en.html
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Re: Electric Release

Post by Sir Cumference »

Riddle wrote:...


At this point, one may ask why do I care? Well, for one, I do not like statistics and chance. For another, I have experience with using these as a release. My tests and months of experience were promising. Then, one day, statistics and chance decided to pay a visit. :facepalm: My keyring had gotten thoroughly magnetized and would not drop. Tests later confirmed, the keyring was thoroughly magnetized and would no longer drop under the previously tested conditions. Oops. The difference between a magnet holding an extra hour and a extra week is extremely small. May you avoid the experience. Safer that way.
Apart from agreeing with the other things you wrote, this is exactly what worries me.

A small change, can have a large effect when you want something to "fail from wearing down".

We had another talk about electric key droppers here:
http://forum.boundanna.net/board/viewto ... =12&t=8611
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Re: Electric Release

Post by slkdyk »

It does not have to be a magnet holding a key ring. The circuit could activate/deactivate a solenoid that would drop the key. Deactivate so release would happen if power is lost. It could trigger anything, drop a key, shine a light in a dark corner where a combo code is, de-energize an magnetic lock, or (fill in the blank here....). Once the control circuit is developed then the actual release mechanism is the next step.
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Re: Electric Release

Post by BornThisWay »

Sir Cumference wrote:We had another talk about electric key droppers here:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8611
Thank you for sharing this Sir Cumference. I had no idea there was another thread on this site so similar to this one.

I haven't run my experiment yet. I have the new 9V batteries and the key rings, but I want to do it right the first time so I've been giving it a lot of thought.

A relay never has a problem with remedial magnesium holding the circuit closed because it has a spring pulling it open. That means the manufacturer must have calculated that the remedial magnetism would never be strong enough to over come the strength of the spring.
In other words, maybe there is a limit to how strong something can be magnetized via remedial magnetism?

Compare it to sky diving, once you reach terminal velocity you aren't going to fall any faster. You can change your terminal velocity by changing your drag, i.e. dive head first and keep your arms tucked in.

I'm thinking if I take a very small piece of soft iron tethered to a key ring via a non magnetic string would greatly reduce the effects of remedial magnetism. I've been told by someone on this site in the past that soft iron has a high resistance to becoming permanently magnetized by exposure to magnetic fields.
And of course I would have the key ring heavier than my first one.

I may never be able to have the predictability I want but it sure is fun trying.
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Re: Electric Release

Post by Sir Cumference »

Just to get the technical terms right:
Remanence or remanent magnetization or residual magnetism is the magnetization left behind in a ferromagnetic material (such as iron) after an external magnetic field is removed. It is also the measure of that magnetization. Colloquially, when a magnet is "magnetized" it has remanence.
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